Anonymous wrote:readingthe musings from teachers on this board is all that is required for high school students to heed parental advise...

That's "advice." And there's one Bitter Teacher (who has posted several rants so far) and one Happy Teacher (who only posted once). Looks like you're fishing for a reason to push your DC into pre-med.

readingthe musings from teachers on this board is all that is required for high school students to heed parental advise...

I guess I'm sick of your repeated posts where you practically scream two conflicting things at the same time. #1, low-SES schools are absolutely hopeless (they're ALL on drugs!), but #2, we shouldn't even try to help because you'd inevitably (no other possible outcome! ever!) be a martyr, and who wants to be a martyr. Oh yeah, toss in #3, You don't get it. There, I think I've captured your recent posts accurately.

Thanks. Next. Unless, that is, you have something to say besides what amounts to "let's throw all those low SES kids in the Atlantic because they're hopeless and because I personally don't want to deal, I only want to work in rich schools."

Anonymous wrote:Wow, 12:55, that was badly written. It's hard not to get lost in a jumble of "I don't get no respect" and "you can't do what I do" and "I'm laughing at those Anacostia teachers who try harder than I do" and "those durn demographic changes are ruining my school." Sounds like you need to leave teaching, or at least teach in a private school.

Let's try to pick out the salient points, if that's even possible.

Really? You'd tell your kids not to go into teaching because their future school district might not be able to afford promethean boards or pencils? Problem solved: you just keep "laughing at" those altruistic suckers teaching in Anacostia and you take your entitled butt over to a school in Bethesda or a private school.

Really, you think those dang "demographics" are ruining your precious school? Problem solved: ditch those undeserving immigrants and poor kids and teach in Bethesda or a private school.

Really, you've convinced yourself that every parent and taxpayer out there agrees 100% that you should be paid pennies because they could do your job? Wrong, wrong, wrong. Lots of us support higher wages for teachers. And you think you don't get no respect? Join the federal government and everyone will love you, ha ha ha. No really, abuse is part of many job descriptions -- teachers don't have a monopoly on abuse from clients.

Then encourage YOUR child to enter the profession and see how you feel when you suddenly start to notice how the profession is viewed in a negative way. It's as simple as reading status updates on FB. I've had friends post items in support of teachers, and suddenly there's a backlash from "friends" who are police or firefighters or parents who send their children to private schools.

And I never said demographics are ruining a school. But the fact is that when you have high levels of poverty, as a teacher, you face transience, low reading levels, abuse, drug use, and a graduate rate that's unacceptable by county standards. Do we push these problems aside, ignore these children and move on? Or do we face the ugly truth that THIS IS REALITY in many schools? And to be a martyr does no one any good. Martyrs burn out, and soon you have a revolving door of teachers. They come in idealistic, give up their lives and their health for a failing system, finally see the light and leave. So unless we - as a society - change how we view teaching, it will only get worse.

You don't get it, and neither do the others on this board who claim to be educated.

The gap between the haves and have nots is only getting wider.

Wow, 12:55, that was badly written. It's hard not to get lost in a jumble of "I don't get no respect" and "you can't do what I do" and "I'm laughing at those Anacostia teachers who try harder than I do" and "those durn demographic changes are ruining my school." Sounds like you need to leave teaching, or at least teach in a private school.

Let's try to pick out the salient points, if that's even possible.

Really? You'd tell your kids not to go into teaching because their future school district might not be able to afford promethean boards or pencils? Problem solved: you just keep "laughing at" those altruistic suckers teaching in Anacostia and you take your entitled butt over to a school in Bethesda or a private school.

Really, you think those dang "demographics" are ruining your precious school? Problem solved: ditch those undeserving immigrants and poor kids and teach in Bethesda or a private school.

Really, you've convinced yourself that every parent and taxpayer out there agrees 100% that you should be paid pennies because they could do your job? Wrong, wrong, wrong. Lots of us support higher wages for teachers. And you think you don't get no respect? Join the federal government and everyone will love you, ha ha ha. No really, abuse is part of many job descriptions -- teachers don't have a monopoly on abuse from clients.

Anonymous wrote:

Open your eyes, PP. By living with your head in the clouds, you'll just allow the profession to die a slow, agonizing death. The truth is ugly, but so is a pimple. And if you cover it up with expensive foundation, it's still there.

Not the PP, but discouraging, no, forbidding, your child to become a teacher also contributes to the slow, agonizing death to the profession. You can complain or you can be part of working on the solution. Frankly, I have no respect for simple complainers.

Then don't complain when taxes are raised.

Don't cry foul when your child is not "getting enough" b/c his classroom is a mixed group.

Those who don't complain are in systems - or areas of systems - where there's money. And if there isn't enough money in the budget, parents have enough to buy, for example, another Promethean Board for a classroom.

Again, so many of you are living in oblivion - including teachers. And elementary school teachers are so far removed from high school that they have NO idea who's graduating with the reading skills of a 4th grader.

I would never encourage my kids to enter the profession until parents step up - and this isn't to say I want helicoptering. I want involved parents who respect what we do. But so many think that anyone can teach. Read the editorials and forums. Anyone can teach b/c everyone's been through school. right?

Read about how easy it is to receive a degree in education. how the lowest of the low enter the profession

I am one of many. Don't think I'm on my own here. But sadly, b/c teachers are too afraid to talk, the system will break. I've seen perfectly solid schools fall apart b/c of a change in demographics - where the poverty level reached over 50%, where class sizes grew to 40, where co-taught classes were taught by one educator and one para who had no ESOL or SPED certification.

This is what I want for my kids?

no way

Bottom line is this - Most new teachers will leave w/in 5 years. I've seen plenty over my career do that. Furthermore, they'll end up in a highly impacted school with little to no support, where management becomes an issue b/c of various factors.

This profession is so complex that even w/in three years - when tenure kicks in - you still don't know what you don't know.

I laugh at teachers who are in places like Anacostia, getting paid pennies and yet using their own money to buy their own supplies. How many of you are buying office supplies? Imagine buying enough for classes of 20 or more. This is more the norm than you think.

I'm so amazed at how many of you can't seem to put down your rose-colored glasses for more than a minute in order to see what the real problems are. Spend a day shadowing a teacher at a highly impacted school. I had someone watch me for a day. She was so saddened by their skill level (and my kids are well behaved) that she refused to make the change from private to public. It took one day.

There are several issues going on here that maybe could benefit from being separated:

1. Whether being a teacher is rewarding/fulfilling/frustrating. The poster quoted at 11:02 did a great job on this.

2. Whether being a teacher is really "low status" and can that be measured by the ratio of nasty-to-nice posts on DCUM or by tea party-inspired anti-teacher union diatribes on editorial pages across the country.

3. Whether a parent is right to worry about the perceived status of a DC's chosen career.

Anonymous wrote:This is a loaded and unbalanced question. I'm a career educator. I've taught elementary school (briefly), middle school (most of my career) and now college/graduate students.

I can't imagine doing anything else with my life. If your DD is anything like me, then teaching is in her blood and it is the only thing that will truly challenge her.

(And, since you posted your DD's scores and before anyone asks, I scored a 1600 on the SATs, back in the day, and went full ride to an Ivy for hard science. I have 3 master's degrees and am an ABD grad student now. I don't think these are the be all and end all of me, but I'm very aware that in DC, anyway, people care about this, so there it is.)

I think my point is you would do well by encouraging her to be a teacher because pushing her elsewhere (and citing her scores) without understanding whether or not she is truly committed to teaching will only alienate her. If she sees teaching as a past time, well, that is a different story. What kids need now are committed teachers and what young people like your DD need are interesting and compelling jobs.

Will she make a lot of money? Of course not. But if she is a real teacher, she will love the work and the challenge so much that she will make things work and have a very happy life.

+1000

Anonymous wrote:

Open your eyes, PP. By living with your head in the clouds, you'll just allow the profession to die a slow, agonizing death. The truth is ugly, but so is a pimple. And if you cover it up with expensive foundation, it's still there.

Not the PP, but discouraging, no, forbidding, your child to become a teacher also contributes to the slow, agonizing death to the profession. You can complain or you can be part of working on the solution. Frankly, I have no respect for simple complainers.

Not to mention the advice in today's NY Times article about parenting for "authentic" success - you need to distinguish between your own needs for status (or avoiding the lack thereof, in this PP's case), other parental needs, vs. parenting to instill work ethic.

(Among other things in the article. But that's the point relevant to this thread.)

Open your eyes, PP. By living with your head in the clouds, you'll just allow the profession to die a slow, agonizing death. The truth is ugly, but so is a pimple. And if you cover it up with expensive foundation, it's still there.

Not the PP, but discouraging, no, forbidding, your child to become a teacher also contributes to the slow, agonizing death to the profession. You can complain or you can be part of working on the solution. Frankly, I have no respect for simple complainers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:never in a million years

I have already told my daughter that if she decides to head into education, I will not pay for college.

I will not have her feel like a failure after hearing how the public views our profession. If you read through these threads, you'll see so much teacher bashing that it's almost impossible to feel good about what we do.

no way in hell

Wow! While I agree that there can be a lot of stupid and hurtful stuff said about teachers online, I don't let strangers on the internet make me feel like a failure. I can see my successes in the skills and happiness of my students, and be confident that the teacher bashers are idiots.

So you don't watch the news or read the papers?

You are unaware of the MANY editorials written by "taxpayers" (b/c teachers don't pay taxes, right?) who are up in arms over raises for teachers?

heard arguments about how "easy" our schedules are b/c we only work 10 months? (Some think we work 9 months.)

You don't understand what happened in Wisconsin?

You can't see how state mandated testing (MSAs and HSAs - in MD, for example) has ruined public education? In the elementary schools, social studies is just something to push aside b/c teachers need to focus on test prep. Do you realize how many support classes we have at the high school level (given a "normal course title" so that they go unnoticed) that are used just for test prep?

You've never been pressured to change grades? to make certain a kid walks the stage even though she's reading at a 3rd grade level?

This is why the profession will never change. It's not just about you and your cherubs, sweet pea. It's about the bigger picture.

Even Diane Ravitch is changing her tune. Have you read this? The Death and Life of the Great American School System: How Testing and Choice Undermine Education (2010).

Open your eyes, PP. By living with your head in the clouds, you'll just allow the profession to die a slow, agonizing death. The truth is ugly, but so is a pimple. And if you cover it up with expensive foundation, it's still there.

Anonymous wrote:never in a million years

I have already told my daughter that if she decides to head into education, I will not pay for college.

I will not have her feel like a failure after hearing how the public views our profession. If you read through these threads, you'll see so much teacher bashing that it's almost impossible to feel good about what we do.

no way in hell

Wow! While I agree that there can be a lot of stupid and hurtful stuff said about teachers online, I don't let strangers on the internet make me feel like a failure. I can see my successes in the skills and happiness of my students, and be confident that the teacher bashers are idiots.

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is a rising senior in one of the MCPS magnet programs; she has a near perfect unweighted/weighted GPA; has scored only 4s or 5s on several AP exams taken so far; and has received no score lower than a 700 on any portion of the SAT exam. She's looking at colleges and focusing on those that have "good education programs" because she wants to be a teacher (in particular, or at least for now, she wants to be a primary school teacher so that she can teach kids how to "read and write" -- two of her greatest joys). It seems to me that the MCPS Troll Playground thread has evolved into an interesting discussion about the teaching profession . . . So I'd like to hear from others (teachers in particular) who may not be following that thread on whether, if you were in my position, you'd encourage your child to pursue teaching as a profession or would you push them toward another profession.

No. Do not "push" her towards anything. Especially since she says she wants to do something else.

OP here. I'm not seeking guidance on how to "advise" my daughter (and I don't think I've ever used that word). In retrospect, maybe I should have composed this thread as a pure hypothetical but, as I indicated, I was switching over from another thread which seemed to be evolving into a discussion about the teaching profession after someone posted a comment along the lines of "the best and brightest don't/no longer go into teaching." Because (in my opinion -- and I also wasn't looking for validation/comment on this point) my daughter falls into the category of "the best and brightest" but/and is interested "in going into teaching" -- I switched over from that thread to this one. The purpose of doing so was not share (for approval/disapproval/comment) my own views on the teaching profession but to solicit/hear the views of others. Sorry for the confusion.

The suggestion to compromse with your DD on on a college that is strong all around but will let her take a few education courses, or even major or minor in education at the undergrad level.

A few reasons. First, trying it out at the undergrad level is a good idea before commiting to grad school. Second, while it's absolutely a parent's duty to "advise" (your words) your DD, you're apparently not a teacher yourself and basing your advice on DCUM isn't going to get you the most reliable, unbiased opinion. Finally, as you know, the word "advice" includes a range going from helpful to tiger momish, and you don't want to be pushing your daughter away from her passion. I'm sure you know this, but it bears repeating.