Anonymous
Post 07/17/2012 12:22     Subject: s/o - let's report "pro-life" posts on fetal anomaly threads instead of responding to them
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:IF an opposing viewpoint is so hurtful, then I might suggest that one's decision is not fully made up. LIke the other poster said, " How is it hurtful and offensive to give information? None of the posts in that thread were rude or trying to be intentionally hurtful."

You are being hurtful by trying to shut down real communication.


No, a hurtful choice is still a choice. Just because it hurts, it doesn't mean it wasn't well thought out or that all the possibilities weren't considered. Making the right decision does NOT mean making the decision that makes you feel better.


WEll, then that's all part and parcel of being a grown-up and living with the consequences of our choices, in all areas of our lives. We make certain decisions every day, and consequences ensue. We feel good about some aspects, we feel badly about some aspects. But we live with it. That's life. You cannot go thru life saying, "LA LA LA," to yourself if you face a sad thought or perspetive or voiced opinion about something.

You made your choice. I respect that. Now I as anoather fellow adult can share my opinion on the issue. You can choose to plug your fingers in your ears and go "LALALA" but I can still tell my opinion.


Oh, sure. That's why I make it a point to tell women who have decided to divorce their abusive husbands that they are going to hell, and I describe in detail how, exactly, their children will be traumatized by the divorce. And when someone has decided to stay with their adulterous spouse, I give them detailed descriptions of the spouse's likely sexual liaisons. Because they need to own it. Own it until they feel bad enough to make the choice I want them to make.
Anonymous
Post 07/17/2012 12:17     Subject: s/o - let's report "pro-life" posts on fetal anomaly threads instead of responding to them
Anonymous wrote:How is it hurtful and offensive to give information? None of the posts in that thread were rude or trying to be intentionally hurtful.

Let's not pretend that women are really given info on what abortion is and what actually happens because they are not. That's why people are so flippant about it. Because it's "just a procedure", you aren't thinking about what that procedure is actually doing.

So if someone comes along and points that out, it's not because they are trying to be hurtful (in most cases). It's because you should know. Now if you choose to still make the same choice- then okay, at least you aren't making it in ignorance.

Some women do choose to have their babies even if the outcomes are likely negative. They have a right to share that, just like you have a right to share your experiences. Also, there are some cases were the unfortunate circumstances do not lead to death of the child; but just a different lifestyle. That point of view needs to be heard as well. It is not inappropriate to discuss POVS that have likely not been considered.


I completely disagree with your position, but it is not writers like you that the OP is talking about. You have thought about the issue and have compassion, I gather from this post, but others are not as kind.
Anonymous
Post 07/17/2012 12:16     Subject: s/o - let's report "pro-life" posts on fetal anomaly threads instead of responding to them
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:IF an opposing viewpoint is so hurtful, then I might suggest that one's decision is not fully made up. LIke the other poster said, " How is it hurtful and offensive to give information? None of the posts in that thread were rude or trying to be intentionally hurtful."

You are being hurtful by trying to shut down real communication.


No, a hurtful choice is still a choice. Just because it hurts, it doesn't mean it wasn't well thought out or that all the possibilities weren't considered. Making the right decision does NOT mean making the decision that makes you feel better.


WEll, then that's all part and parcel of being a grown-up and living with the consequences of our choices, in all areas of our lives. We make certain decisions every day, and consequences ensue. We feel good about some aspects, we feel badly about some aspects. But we live with it. That's life. You cannot go thru life saying, "LA LA LA," to yourself if you face a sad thought or perspetive or voiced opinion about something.

You made your choice. I respect that. Now I as anoather fellow adult can share my opinion on the issue. You can choose to plug your fingers in your ears and go "LALALA" but I can still tell my opinion.
Anonymous
Post 07/17/2012 12:11     Subject: s/o - let's report "pro-life" posts on fetal anomaly threads instead of responding to them
Anonymous wrote:IF an opposing viewpoint is so hurtful, then I might suggest that one's decision is not fully made up. LIke the other poster said, " How is it hurtful and offensive to give information? None of the posts in that thread were rude or trying to be intentionally hurtful."

You are being hurtful by trying to shut down real communication.


No, a hurtful choice is still a choice. Just because it hurts, it doesn't mean it wasn't well thought out or that all the possibilities weren't considered. Making the right decision does NOT mean making the decision that makes you feel better.
Anonymous
Post 07/17/2012 12:11     Subject: s/o - let's report "pro-life" posts on fetal anomaly threads instead of responding to them
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:IF an opposing viewpoint is so hurtful, then I might suggest that one's decision is not fully made up. LIke the other poster said, " How is it hurtful and offensive to give information? None of the posts in that thread were rude or trying to be intentionally hurtful."

You are being hurtful by trying to shut down real communication.


this is bullshit. if I'm gay, homophobia is hurtful. If I'm black, racism is hurtful. If I've just decided to make the incredibly painful decision to terminated a wanted pregnancy, then screeds about how I shouldn't KILL BABIES is hurtful.


But if you believe in abortion then it is highly unlikely you consider the fetus to be a baby. Whether you see it as fetal tissue or however you conceptualize it, it has no inherent value of its own which is why it is seen as disposable for reason x,y or z. Therefore talking about babies isn't really relevant or hurtful as if you thought of it as a baby you wouldn't be discarding it. Being hurt by something unrelated to your own perspective doesn't really make sense.



Anonymous
Post 07/17/2012 12:10     Subject: s/o - let's report "pro-life" posts on fetal anomaly threads instead of responding to them
Anonymous wrote:How is it hurtful and offensive to give information? None of the posts in that thread were rude or trying to be intentionally hurtful.

Let's not pretend that women are really given info on what abortion is and what actually happens because they are not. That's why people are so flippant about it. Because it's "just a procedure", you aren't thinking about what that procedure is actually doing.

So if someone comes along and points that out, it's not because they are trying to be hurtful (in most cases). It's because you should know. Now if you choose to still make the same choice- then okay, at least you aren't making it in ignorance.

Some women do choose to have their babies even if the outcomes are likely negative. They have a right to share that, just like you have a right to share your experiences. Also, there are some cases were the unfortunate circumstances do not lead to death of the child; but just a different lifestyle. That point of view needs to be heard as well. It is not inappropriate to discuss POVS that have likely not been considered.


Thank you for saying this!
Anonymous
Post 07/17/2012 12:04     Subject: s/o - let's report "pro-life" posts on fetal anomaly threads instead of responding to them
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:IF an opposing viewpoint is so hurtful, then I might suggest that one's decision is not fully made up. LIke the other poster said, " How is it hurtful and offensive to give information? None of the posts in that thread were rude or trying to be intentionally hurtful."

You are being hurtful by trying to shut down real communication.


this is bullshit. if I'm gay, homophobia is hurtful. If I'm black, racism is hurtful. If I've just decided to make the incredibly painful decision to terminated a wanted pregnancy, then screeds about how I shouldn't KILL BABIES is hurtful.


Then you should get a thicker skin. Because why can you do something, but you cannot talk about it? We are all big girls here. Put on your big girl panties. IF it's so important to you that you do it, why do you tiptoe around it and talk about it in fake gentle hush hush tones? Baloney. Own it.
Anonymous
Post 07/17/2012 12:02     Subject: s/o - let's report "pro-life" posts on fetal anomaly threads instead of responding to them
Anonymous wrote:IF an opposing viewpoint is so hurtful, then I might suggest that one's decision is not fully made up. LIke the other poster said, " How is it hurtful and offensive to give information? None of the posts in that thread were rude or trying to be intentionally hurtful."

You are being hurtful by trying to shut down real communication.


this is bullshit. if I'm gay, homophobia is hurtful. If I'm black, racism is hurtful. If I've just decided to make the incredibly painful decision to terminated a wanted pregnancy, then screeds about how I shouldn't KILL BABIES is hurtful.
Anonymous
Post 07/17/2012 12:02     Subject: s/o - let's report "pro-life" posts on fetal anomaly threads instead of responding to them
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How is it hurtful and offensive to give information? None of the posts in that thread were rude or trying to be intentionally hurtful.

Let's not pretend that women are really given info on what abortion is and what actually happens because they are not. That's why people are so flippant about it. Because it's "just a procedure", you aren't thinking about what that procedure is actually doing.

So if someone comes along and points that out, it's not because they are trying to be hurtful (in most cases). It's because you should know. Now if you choose to still make the same choice- then okay, at least you aren't making it in ignorance.

Some women do choose to have their babies even if the outcomes are likely negative. They have a right to share that, just like you have a right to share your experiences. Also, there are some cases were the unfortunate circumstances do not lead to death of the child; but just a different lifestyle. That point of view needs to be heard as well. It is not inappropriate to discuss POVS that have likely not been considered.


Women in this situation who have decided on termination have all the information they need, and believe me, agonize over "the procedure" and have considered all the angles. The fact that you don't understand this just shows that you're callously/ignorantly/naively using these threads to spout your own agenda, and have never REMOTELY been in a similar circumstance.



How on earth can you possibly know this? You have absolutely no idea what information someone else has or hasn't heard, and whether or not additional perspectives would be helpful for them. Why are you so adamant that certain perspectives MUST be silenced? Women who want absolutely no challenge to their choice (about abortion or any other difficult topic) hold their story very close, and do not share it with places like DCUM.

By the way, no one was offensive, mean, or otherwise judgmental to the OP in the other thread. If you read carefully, you will see that there were a few instances of posters in support of OP who called the other perspective "crazies", which is slightly derogative but none of it was mean enough to warrant silencing IMO.
Anonymous
Post 07/17/2012 12:02     Subject: s/o - let's report "pro-life" posts on fetal anomaly threads instead of responding to them
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How is it hurtful and offensive to give information? None of the posts in that thread were rude or trying to be intentionally hurtful.

Let's not pretend that women are really given info on what abortion is and what actually happens because they are not. That's why people are so flippant about it. Because it's "just a procedure", you aren't thinking about what that procedure is actually doing.

So if someone comes along and points that out, it's not because they are trying to be hurtful (in most cases). It's because you should know. Now if you choose to still make the same choice- then okay, at least you aren't making it in ignorance.

Some women do choose to have their babies even if the outcomes are likely negative. They have a right to share that, just like you have a right to share your experiences. Also, there are some cases were the unfortunate circumstances do not lead to death of the child; but just a different lifestyle. That point of view needs to be heard as well. It is not inappropriate to discuss POVS that have likely not been considered.


Women in this situation who have decided on termination have all the information they need, and believe me, agonize over "the procedure" and have considered all the angles. The fact that you don't understand this just shows that you're callously/ignorantly/naively using these threads to spout your own agenda, and have never REMOTELY been in a similar circumstance.



No they don't. The OP in the other thread wrote something like - what are the risks? I didn't see the post that was deleted. So you need to stop being so controlling. They have all the information YOU think they need for YOUR agenda. Just enough info to say "Ok, I am terminating". But that does not mean they have all of the information. For someone who is about choice, it seems like you only want choices that fit your POV. And you don't know what circumstances I and others have been in. Were you the nasty person in that other thread to call the mother who watched her child die a horrible person?

Anonymous
Post 07/17/2012 11:59     Subject: s/o - let's report "pro-life" posts on fetal anomaly threads instead of responding to them
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Lots of things on here are delicate, paintful topics (divorce, family, children with SN). All of the forums (fora?) are lively and go in different directions. I don't see why this one particular issue is the most heightened issue for all women, ever, and should be policedly most strictly, in a separate and independent fashion from everything else.


For what it's worth, I am pro-choice but I agree with this. DCUM is not a place where discussions are policed on "niceness". I understand that this is painful sometimes, but frankly, perhaps then you shouldn't use this anonymous board. It's just how DCUM works, I think.

Jeff would have the final say on this obviously.


op here -- yeah, I agree that this isn't a "nice" place. But I do think it would be better if specific hot topics (like termination) were not allowed to ALWAYS devolve into a useless fight. It's like if every mom posting about nannies or pumping at was berated by an army of posters for not staying home with her kids. This happens sometimes, but if it happened ALL THE TIME, then this site would be pretty useless for exchanging info on nannies. I think there's a balance between maintaining the snarkiness of this site, and policing certain sensitive subject areas.
Anonymous
Post 07/17/2012 11:57     Subject: s/o - let's report "pro-life" posts on fetal anomaly threads instead of responding to them
IF an opposing viewpoint is so hurtful, then I might suggest that one's decision is not fully made up. LIke the other poster said, " How is it hurtful and offensive to give information? None of the posts in that thread were rude or trying to be intentionally hurtful."

You are being hurtful by trying to shut down real communication.
Anonymous
Post 07/17/2012 11:56     Subject: s/o - let's report "pro-life" posts on fetal anomaly threads instead of responding to them
Anonymous wrote:Lots of things on here are delicate, paintful topics (divorce, family, children with SN). All of the forums (fora?) are lively and go in different directions. I don't see why this one particular issue is the most heightened issue for all women, ever, and should be policedly most strictly, in a separate and independent fashion from everything else.


For what it's worth, I am pro-choice but I agree with this. DCUM is not a place where discussions are policed on "niceness". I understand that this is painful sometimes, but frankly, perhaps then you shouldn't use this anonymous board. It's just how DCUM works, I think.

Jeff would have the final say on this obviously.
Anonymous
Post 07/17/2012 11:56     Subject: s/o - let's report "pro-life" posts on fetal anomaly threads instead of responding to them
Anonymous wrote:How is it hurtful and offensive to give information? None of the posts in that thread were rude or trying to be intentionally hurtful.

Let's not pretend that women are really given info on what abortion is and what actually happens because they are not. That's why people are so flippant about it. Because it's "just a procedure", you aren't thinking about what that procedure is actually doing.

So if someone comes along and points that out, it's not because they are trying to be hurtful (in most cases). It's because you should know. Now if you choose to still make the same choice- then okay, at least you aren't making it in ignorance.

Some women do choose to have their babies even if the outcomes are likely negative. They have a right to share that, just like you have a right to share your experiences. Also, there are some cases were the unfortunate circumstances do not lead to death of the child; but just a different lifestyle. That point of view needs to be heard as well. It is not inappropriate to discuss POVS that have likely not been considered.


Women in this situation who have decided on termination have all the information they need, and believe me, agonize over "the procedure" and have considered all the angles. The fact that you don't understand this just shows that you're callously/ignorantly/naively using these threads to spout your own agenda, and have never REMOTELY been in a similar circumstance.

Anonymous
Post 07/17/2012 11:53     Subject: s/o - let's report "pro-life" posts on fetal anomaly threads instead of responding to them
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:All threads on DCUM (and most communities like this) take all sorts of tangents. I recently wrote one called "help me understand something about selling" in the real estate section and I got advice that I should just listen to the market, advice that was specifically what I was looking for, advice that was totally off. You just pick thru and take what's helpful and ignore the rest. Why should this one topic require such stricter monitoring than any other topic within this community?


Because its a delicate, painful topic and it needs to be treated as such. It takes a lot for a woman in this situation, facing the hardest moment of her life, to be able to ask for help. Th LAST thing she needs is a beat down for a choice that she didn't want to have to be faced with in the first place. You can't possibly compare the advice given to a grieving mother who just found out she will never see her baby learning how to walk or talk to your real state issue.


Lots of things on here are delicate, paintful topics (divorce, family, children with SN). All of the forums (fora?) are lively and go in different directions. I don't see why this one particular issue is the most heightened issue for all women, ever, and should be policedly most strictly, in a separate and independent fashion from everything else.


Wow, if you can't figure out why this issue is a special one, then I think you're being obtuse.

Anyway, if the Christian Coalition contingent decided to berate every abused woman who was thinking about getting a divorce on the grounds that it was ungodly, then I would make the same suggestion.