Anonymous
Post 07/06/2012 15:13     Subject: Re:At what point does a fetus become a human being?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Life begins at conception. I would say for myself that I am against abortion - but I think the choice should be available. But life still begins at conception. If you are going to have an abortion you might as well deal with the reality that a life is being lost.


But this doesn't correspond to most people's emotional reality. Most people don't mourn the loss of an early miscarriage the same way they would mourn the loss of a stillbirth or child's death. Most people are much more comfortable with abortion in the early stages, than they are with later-term abortions. The "life" being lost when it's a zygote just is not the same thing as the life being lost when it's fully developed. Certainly, most parents doing IVF discard embryos without too much trauma ... because they never really regarded those embryos as babies, but rather as potential babies. Thus, a zygote/embryo is not really fully human, in my opinion, if we define "human" as an entity that is on par with all other humans. "Life" and "human being" are not the same thing -- just think about it, a dead body is a human being, but there is no life. Similarly, an embryo is alive, but not a human being.


I definitely mourned my miscarriage (although I have not had a stillbirth to compare it to). For someone to tell me that the fetus I was carrying wasn't a child. My child. Is very upsetting. But this is just how I feel. I know others don't necessarily feel the same and I do see what you are saying.


I totally get that women mourn any miscarriage of a wanted baby! But it's different, right, than a child or a zygote. You probably wouldn't have mourned the same way for a chemical miscarriage (ie 2 week zygote) as you would for even someone else's actually born baby or for a miscarriage at 12 weeks. And if you did IVF, you'd probably consider the discarded embryos as just a cost of the procedure, not something to be really very upset about.
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2012 14:53     Subject: At what point does a fetus become a human being?
Anonymous wrote:But isn't there a big enough grey area with abortion, that elected representatives pretty much need to deal with it? Using your logic, abortion should be a free for all. A woman would be able to terminate for any reason right up to delivery, assuming she could find a physician willing to go along with it.


I am also very pro-choice, but I agree that the lawmakers do have a role here. As a society we set boundaries on what we call acceptable, and lawmakers are the means to codify that.

Example: everybody on this board will agree that abortion in week 42 is morally wrong. I believe that it is good that the law makes a statement saying that no abortions can be done in week 42. (Obviously, the key question that OP asked is: where is the boundary. Clearly well BEFORE 42 weeks, the question is how far before).

So saying that lawmakers have no business talking about this or making laws about this is incorrect.

Anonymous
Post 07/06/2012 14:39     Subject: At what point does a fetus become a human being?
[b]
Anonymous wrote:Very pro choice here. I would agree to restricting abortion to say the first x number of weeks, a definitely NOT viable number like 14, except in cases of risk to the life of the mother.

What I do NOT want is my freaking state legislature writing laws which talk about vaginas and menstrual periods. Leave it to the woman and her doctor to determine the gestation with generally medically accepted methods. SO pissed off when elected representatives start talking about lady business.



But isn't there a big enough grey area with abortion, that elected representatives pretty much need to deal with it? Using your logic, abortion should be a free for all. A woman would be able to terminate for any reason right up to delivery, assuming she could find a physician willing to go along with it.
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2012 14:31     Subject: At what point does a fetus become a human being?
Why the life of the mother? Why not the health of the mother? If a woman has a heart condition that would be made worse by delivering a baby, are you saying that's just too bad?
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2012 13:45     Subject: At what point does a fetus become a human being?
Very pro choice here. I would agree to restricting abortion to say the first x number of weeks, a definitely NOT viable number like 14, except in cases of risk to the life of the mother.

What I do NOT want is my freaking state legislature writing laws which talk about vaginas and menstrual periods. Leave it to the woman and her doctor to determine the gestation with generally medically accepted methods. SO pissed off when elected representatives start talking about lady business.
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2012 13:04     Subject: Re:At what point does a fetus become a human being?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Life begins at conception. I would say for myself that I am against abortion - but I think the choice should be available. But life still begins at conception. If you are going to have an abortion you might as well deal with the reality that a life is being lost.


But this doesn't correspond to most people's emotional reality. Most people don't mourn the loss of an early miscarriage the same way they would mourn the loss of a stillbirth or child's death. Most people are much more comfortable with abortion in the early stages, than they are with later-term abortions. The "life" being lost when it's a zygote just is not the same thing as the life being lost when it's fully developed. Certainly, most parents doing IVF discard embryos without too much trauma ... because they never really regarded those embryos as babies, but rather as potential babies. Thus, a zygote/embryo is not really fully human, in my opinion, if we define "human" as an entity that is on par with all other humans. "Life" and "human being" are not the same thing -- just think about it, a dead body is a human being, but there is no life. Similarly, an embryo is alive, but not a human being.


I definitely mourned my miscarriage (although I have not had a stillbirth to compare it to). For someone to tell me that the fetus I was carrying wasn't a child. My child. Is very upsetting. But this is just how I feel. I know others don't necessarily feel the same and I do see what you are saying.
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2012 12:55     Subject: Re:At what point does a fetus become a human being?
Anonymous wrote:Life begins at conception. I would say for myself that I am against abortion - but I think the choice should be available. But life still begins at conception. If you are going to have an abortion you might as well deal with the reality that a life is being lost.


But this doesn't correspond to most people's emotional reality. Most people don't mourn the loss of an early miscarriage the same way they would mourn the loss of a stillbirth or child's death. Most people are much more comfortable with abortion in the early stages, than they are with later-term abortions. The "life" being lost when it's a zygote just is not the same thing as the life being lost when it's fully developed. Certainly, most parents doing IVF discard embryos without too much trauma ... because they never really regarded those embryos as babies, but rather as potential babies. Thus, a zygote/embryo is not really fully human, in my opinion, if we define "human" as an entity that is on par with all other humans. "Life" and "human being" are not the same thing -- just think about it, a dead body is a human being, but there is no life. Similarly, an embryo is alive, but not a human being.
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2012 12:39     Subject: At what point does a fetus become a human being?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:God said " I knew you before you were formed in your mothers womb"....the answer of course , is at conception.


Wouldn't that mean before conception?
yes, but we can only control the fate of the soul after conception.
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2012 12:08     Subject: At what point does a fetus become a human being?
Anonymous wrote:pro choice
Faced with the decision 53 yrs ago at the ages of 19 &17 we married rather than have a"back room" abortion. Our 53rd anniv was 7/3 Still very happily married
The thought of our daughter not be a wonderful contributing member of society confirms all our decisions FOR US

We live in a county where, in theory, church and state ate separate. By foisting your religious convictions upon others who do not believe as you do, your arrogance in doing so, violates all that make this country unique?

Abortion when and if is a choice best made by the two people who conceived the child, not the government, not a church i may or may not believe in and not a G - d whose not anyone else but the two people or just the mother as dictated by circumstance. rape, incest health, etc.

We'd all be best served if all you G-d fearing zealots
kept your beliefs to yourself and cease with your insane demonstrations, justification, incentivizing the murder of Md's
and heartless taunting of women seeing abortion.
When is life prior to birth, is a personal, ethical choice, not one to be dictated by a church,or a government




Can't people read? The OP asked, When does a fetus become a human - not, why are you pro-choice.
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2012 11:44     Subject: At what point does a fetus become a human being?
Anonymous wrote:God said " I knew you before you were formed in your mothers womb"....the answer of course , is at conception.


Wouldn't that mean before conception?
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2012 11:14     Subject: Re:At what point does a fetus become a human being?
Life begins at conception. I would say for myself that I am against abortion - but I think the choice should be available. But life still begins at conception. If you are going to have an abortion you might as well deal with the reality that a life is being lost.
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2012 11:11     Subject: At what point does a fetus become a human being?
pp.
Just because someone disagrees with your "Christian" position you equate them with mass murder.
Wake up, we all don't adhere to your arrogant, pompous, we are Christian, therefore entitled to make all decisions for you, life philosophy
Were I abetting man I bet you are a great believer in personal responsibility, and 100% anti Obama Care, and all other government invasions on our personal life choices. I am not one of your fellow Christian fanatics. Stay out of my life choices.
Most REASONABLE INTELLIGENT people would agree viability should be the deciding factor
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2012 10:32     Subject: At what point does a fetus become a human being?
To christans....at conception

To pro choicers....at any time unless the head slips out of the birth canal

To Hitler....no restrictions.

Anonymous
Post 07/06/2012 10:12     Subject: At what point does a fetus become a human being?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:At the point of viability, or when the mother decides she wants to have the baby, whichever comes first.



Pro-choice. I see viability as the point at which a fetus becomes a human. I really don't understand the viewpoint above. How does the point as to when an individual decides when she wants a baby have any bearing on as to when a fetus actually becomes human?


I think the PP expressed a practical viewpoint that's often missing in this kind of debate. The mother's intent is a big part of what a fertilized egg might turn out to be. If she decides to have the baby, losing it is a tragedy whether it was viable or not. If she was never going to carry the pregnancy to term, then the fetus is effectively a parasite unless/until it can live on its own.

I'm pro choice from a legal standpoint, but think that more women should choose adoption. (I am an adoptive parent).
Anonymous
Post 07/06/2012 10:07     Subject: Re:At what point does a fetus become a human being?
fetus /fe·tus/ (f?t´us) [L.] the developing young in the uterus, specifically the unborn offspring in the postembryonic period, in humans from nine weeks after fertilization until birth.