PP here...and BTW, male circumcision is NOTHING like female circumcision at all.

13:29, You have no idea what you are talking about. Circumcision is OFTEN if not ALWAYS about religion in my Jewish friends' circles. Many feel very conflicted abut it, but there is an inner pull to do this seemingly painful, possibly unuseful thing to your 8 day old. We are VERY conflicted, yet do it because of our faith. I am actually shocked by Germany's decision, and will bounce it off my German friend to see what he thinks...

Anonymous wrote:They banned circumcision on children who can not authorize the procedure, so it isn't completely banned.
I don't think they are out to get any particular group. I think they think the procedure is really barbaric (not saying I agree...but can appreciate the sentiment) and shouldn't be performed on someone who can not give consent. I definitely can see how this decision could be construed as anti-semitic. In a sense, it is, in that the German court does not acknowledge people's right to religious freedom (with this decision).
That being said...what is policy in U.S. on treating children of Christian Scientists (who refuse medical treatment)...can they refuse for their kids on grounds of religion? And if not, how is this really different than German decision?

Thank you for pointing that out.
Someone mentioned the large Turkish population, but generally they don't practice circumcision in early infancy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WOW, I'm surprised Germany would enforce anything remotely anti Semitic

I'm not at all surprised. This just proves they have not come nearly as far as they may think they have. I find this ruling highly anti-semitic. I've been taught to always remember and never forget and THIS is why. Germany doesn't seem to be headed in the right direction.

REALLY PP? You think denying parents right to remove a body part from unconsenting children is akin to the holocaust?

Holy shit.

Anonymous wrote:Hmm, I have to disagree that it is rarely a religious thing. I have two Jewish friends that were really torn about the issue recently. They weren't strongly opposed to it, but didn't feel it was medically necessary, and probably wouldn't have done it but for the religious aspect.

This describes me.

Frankly, I'm appalled at the decision. Given Germany's history, they need to be bending backwards not to infringe on anyone's religious practice. This is especially true when the evidence of harm for male circumcision is mixed, at best (compared to the evidence of risk of female cutting, which is overwhelming).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WOW, I'm surprised Germany would enforce anything remotely anti Semitic

I'm not at all surprised. This just proves they have not come nearly as far as they may think they have. I find this ruling highly anti-semitic. I've been taught to always remember and never forget and THIS is why. Germany doesn't seem to be headed in the right direction.

I was being sarcastic

I think this ruling extends government power too uncomfortably into people's private lives.

They banned circumcision on children who can not authorize the procedure, so it isn't completely banned.
I don't think they are out to get any particular group. I think they think the procedure is really barbaric (not saying I agree...but can appreciate the sentiment) and shouldn't be performed on someone who can not give consent. I definitely can see how this decision could be construed as anti-semitic. In a sense, it is, in that the German court does not acknowledge people's right to religious freedom (with this decision).
That being said...what is policy in U.S. on treating children of Christian Scientists (who refuse medical treatment)...can they refuse for their kids on grounds of religion? And if not, how is this really different than German decision?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn't someone earlier say the case actually involved Muslims?

Yes, but the ruling affects everyone in the region who would want to circ for religious reasons.

Yes. But I'm going to guess there are now more Turks and other Muslims in Germany than Jews. So if this measure is "out to get" anyone, I'd think it would be the Muslims.

Anonymous wrote:Didn't someone earlier say the case actually involved Muslims?

Yes, but the ruling affects everyone in the region who would want to circ for religious reasons.

Didn't someone earlier say the case actually involved Muslims?

Germany has a population of 80 million. 200000 of them are jewish, and only half of them actually practice their religion. That's not even 1% of the country. Somehow I doubt that they made this decision to "get back at the jews"...

I also consider it anti-semitic.

A court shouldn't have this power but I could get behind a legislative bill that banned it WITH a religious exemption. For observant Jews and Muslims it is an important act.

Hmm, I have to disagree that it is rarely a religious thing. I have two Jewish friends that were really torn about the issue recently. They weren't strongly opposed to it, but didn't feel it was medically necessary, and probably wouldn't have done it but for the religious aspect.