Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:b]When an organization excludes a group of people from membership that's discrimination. Regardless of what they teach or talk about in scouting, the organization as a whole has discriminatory practices[/b].

so? It's perfectly legal.

Legal and ignorant and bigoted.

Not necessarily. If I want to start an organization of tall thin brunettes and I purposely exclude short fat red heads, is this "bigoted?" Or do you just like throwing around the word-du-jour?

it is pretty much "don't ask, don't tell," so anyone can get in and benefit from it.
My kid will be an Eagle Scout and he doesn't think any less of gays.

16:05 - what? Don't you have enough principles and enough voice to stand up for what you think is important? You can only hang around with people who agree with you or you'll be tainted - kind of Middle School, no?

No, 15:05, it isn't - if you abandon the Boy Scouts to the extremists and the homophobes and the anti-atheists, you lose something admirable, good, and important. It might not matter to you in your solid, middle-class suburban family with a mom and a dad, but it might make a big difference to a boy who does not have a dad around, or who is short on role models with jobs, or who lives where it is otherwise not safe to be outside, much less in the woods. If people like you don't join up, and press the Scouts toward inclusion, we've let it slip away, and taken away opportunities, if not for your not-so-needy kid, then for others.

When I hear of families with sons in boy scouts, I admit that I think they are conservative types who don't agree with gay rights. When you join a group, you will be associated with the views of that group.

Anonymous wrote:In many troups, it is possible to take advantage of the multitude of positive aspects of the Boy Scouts while not kowtowing to the discrimination. You might enjoy Scout's Honor: A Father's Unlikely Foray into the Woods, by a New York Times journalist, Peter Applebome, on this very topic - also a terrific and funny book: http://www.amazon.com/Scouts-Honor-Fathers-Unlikely-Foray/dp/0156029685

That's like saying, if my kid qualifies for a scholarship to college sponsored by the KKK but I think what they do is horrible, I should still let him take the scholarship because it, in and of itself, is a positive thing. Yep - I realize it's a harsh/extreme comparison, but think about it ...

In many troups, it is possible to take advantage of the multitude of positive aspects of the Boy Scouts while not kowtowing to the discrimination. You might enjoy Scout's Honor: A Father's Unlikely Foray into the Woods, by a New York Times journalist, Peter Applebome, on this very topic - also a terrific and funny book: http://www.amazon.com/Scouts-Honor-Fathers-Unlikely-Foray/dp/0156029685

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think my son would love boy scouts. I think there are many wonderful things he could get out of it. But I owe it to him to teach him to stand up for values we as a family hold dear, and not giving money to organizations that promote homophobia and discrimination is on that list. So, we choose other things for him to do.

No where in my scout teaching have they ever talked about gays being bad. I am not sure where you are getting this information from.

When an organization excludes a group of people from membership that's discrimination. Regardless of what they teach or talk about in scouting, the organization as a whole has discriminatory practices.

DC's troop has more than enough kids. You don't like their philosophy don't join. Simple really.

It's not the simple, really! Many people are completely unaware of the Boy Scouts' discriminatory policies. If their child's personal pack or troop doesn't say anything or seems perfectly welcoming, they figure that there's no problem - but the problem is at the national level. Since people are unaware of that, it is necessary to make the public aware.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think my son would love boy scouts. I think there are many wonderful things he could get out of it. But I owe it to him to teach him to stand up for values we as a family hold dear, and not giving money to organizations that promote homophobia and discrimination is on that list. So, we choose other things for him to do.

No where in my scout teaching have they ever talked about gays being bad. I am not sure where you are getting this information from.

When an organization excludes a group of people from membership that's discrimination. Regardless of what they teach or talk about in scouting, the organization as a whole has discriminatory practices.

DC's troop has more than enough kids. You don't like their philosophy don't join. Simple really.

It was't official! But that's a great story!

When I was a kid, most of my friends were boys and were part of a Cub Scout group, led by my mom's coworker. I tried Brownies, but it didn't work out with our troop, so the Cub Scout leader let me join my friends in his group. I don't know if it was "official" but I had my uniform and earned the badges or whatever. I always think it's so funny that BSA is soooooo against any gay people being involved, yet here I am, a female former Cub Scout.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:b]When an organization excludes a group of people from membership that's discrimination. Regardless of what they teach or talk about in scouting, the organization as a whole has discriminatory practices[/b].

so? It's perfectly legal.

Legal and ignorant and bigoted.

+1,000

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think my son would love boy scouts. I think there are many wonderful things he could get out of it. But I owe it to him to teach him to stand up for values we as a family hold dear, and not giving money to organizations that promote homophobia and discrimination is on that list. So, we choose other things for him to do.

No where in my scout teaching have they ever talked about gays being bad. I am not sure where you are getting this information from.

They might not talk about it in your leadership materials, but the national organization went to the Supreme Court to assert their right to deny homosexuals membership in the BSA.

A position statement promulgated by the Boy Scouts in 1991 (after Dale's membership was revoked but before this litigation was filed) also supports its current view:

"We believe that homosexual conduct is inconsistent with the requirement in the Scout Oath that a Scout be morally straight and in the Scout Law that a Scout be clean in word and deed, and that homosexuals do not provide a desirable role model for Scouts."

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=000&invol=99-699

It has nothing to do with concerns about child molestation. Even lesbians are "not morally straight" and are "unclean" and therefore may not serve as leaders. If no one in your den or pack complains then the national organization is willing to turn a blind eye but if even ONE person in your pack complains about it, that leader will have to step down or be kicked out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:b]When an organization excludes a group of people from membership that's discrimination. Regardless of what they teach or talk about in scouting, the organization as a whole has discriminatory practices[/b].

so? It's perfectly legal.

Legal and ignorant and bigoted.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think my son would love boy scouts. I think there are many wonderful things he could get out of it. But I owe it to him to teach him to stand up for values we as a family hold dear, and not giving money to organizations that promote homophobia and discrimination is on that list. So, we choose other things for him to do.

No where in my scout teaching have they ever talked about gays being bad. I am not sure where you are getting this information from.

When an organization excludes a group of people from membership that's discrimination. Regardless of what they teach or talk about in scouting, the organization as a whole has discriminatory practices.

so? It's perfectly legal.