This reminds me of my dental hygienist telling me she put her infant in a closet to sleep train him w/out waking her toddler. In her defense, it was a walk-in closet. Anyway, I'm not suggesting you do that, OP.

As a former longtime apartment dweller and anti-CIO mom (my 2 yr old co-sleeps), my personal opinion is that the kind of crying that happens in any of the major sleep training programs is really not that big a deal to your neighbor, esp. since the (presumed and hopeful) trade-off would be many future nights with no crying, instead of what happens currently (presumably, your baby waking and crying until you can get out of bed and soothe/feed). I've suffered many, many worse things as a neighbor, and I would argue that anyone who lives in a building with thin walls who hasn't had to purchase a pair of ear plugs at one point or another is darned lucky.

I agree w/ PPs who say a quick apology to your neighbor, in the context of your otherwise good-neighborliness, is in order-- the same as when you are planning to throw a party, for instance. Beyond that, it is not up to your neighbor (or any of us) to judge you, just as it's not up to us to judge your neighbor if she's had nine different boyfriends in the past year or wakes up only after the alarm has been going off for twenty-five minutes (or accidentally presses snooze and then leaves the apartment).

That said, as someone who has no experience w/ CIO, do you think it might be harder to sleep train this way if your baby can actually see you/knows you're right there? Might be a slight issue in the middle of the night, but I'm not sure-- others who have experience might help by weighing in.

OP again - also meant to thank everyone again for the great thoughts. It's a tough balancing act. We'd love to get our room back. Part of the problem now is that when the baby goes to sleep in our room, the only room left in the apartment for us to hang out in is the living room. If one of us needs to make a phone call, the other is disturbed. If one of us wants to read and the other wants to watch TV, we have to flip a coin or rotate, etc. It's all silly stuff, but we always feel like we're one room short. I wonder how our relatives did this in the lower East Side ghettos in the 1920s. Guess I shouldn't really be complaining. Thanks again everyone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP Here - Hi everyone - thanks so much for the various perspectives and the good advice on how to proceed. We're tending to agree that it's only going to be for a few days (and at 8pm) so our neighbor (with whom we've always had good relations) should get a grip.

I think we're more worried about the middle-of-the-night wakeups, but our hope is that if we do Ferber successfully at bedtime then our baby will know how to fall back asleep during the middle of the night. I think after the holidays next week we'll have a chat with her. We'd like to continue to be good, respectful and friendly neighbors (we've watered her plants when she's gone away) but we also would like to improve the sleep situatoin in our home.

How is your kid's sleep schedule otherwise? 8 pm is awfully late for a 5 month old. Before doing CIO, I would try to establish an earlier bedtime - arouind 7 pm. Honestly, I think that by trying CIO at 8 pm you're going to make it a lot harder on everyone. Have you read Weissbluth?

Hi OP here - unfortunately due to work schedules, we cannot do earlier than 8pm. We actually start the routine at 7:30 and end by 8pm. We dream of 9-5 jobs, but unfortunately it's not in the cards. We do the best we can and for us that means 8pm. The baby does take a nap on the drive home from daycare, which helps with this.

Anonymous wrote:Other option is to go ask the neighbor if she/he minds a few nights of possible crying baby. Let neighbors know the perameters: you'll let baby cry max 15 minutes, or whatever. Bring wine.

I'm in a small apartment. First sound proof the room the best extent you can: anything soft will help absorb sound. Carpet on floor and rug padding beneath, even over wall to wall carpeting. Curtains on windows. Quilt hanging on wall. All these things will help absorb sound.

Second, consider layout of room. Can crib be moved to an interior wall? Is it away from radiators and other places where sound transmits?

Last, and very important, buy a really good white noise maker. Please near "sound leak" like a radiator or window or door. I use the bathroom fan and a white noisemaker near the window to keep my neighbors happy.

Set a time parameter and talk to neighborts. Begin sleep training on a long weekend, like the Friday of Memorial Day weekend. My DS was sleep trained within two nights, so it is not a long time for them to catch on to the gist of it; it's just a rocky first and second night.

GL!

Anonymous wrote:OP Here - Hi everyone - thanks so much for the various perspectives and the good advice on how to proceed. We're tending to agree that it's only going to be for a few days (and at 8pm) so our neighbor (with whom we've always had good relations) should get a grip.

I think we're more worried about the middle-of-the-night wakeups, but our hope is that if we do Ferber successfully at bedtime then our baby will know how to fall back asleep during the middle of the night. I think after the holidays next week we'll have a chat with her. We'd like to continue to be good, respectful and friendly neighbors (we've watered her plants when she's gone away) but we also would like to improve the sleep situatoin in our home.

How is your kid's sleep schedule otherwise? 8 pm is awfully late for a 5 month old. Before doing CIO, I would try to establish an earlier bedtime - arouind 7 pm. Honestly, I think that by trying CIO at 8 pm you're going to make it a lot harder on everyone. Have you read Weissbluth?

Anonymous wrote:Just don't bother. Five months is still too early. Wait until the baby is a little older. For now, hold/cuddle/snuggle them - it is the least stressful option.

I am not anti-CIO; I just think that (a) 5 months is a few months too early and (b), it is going to end up being more stress overall then just continuing to get up.

In the meantime, work on those good sleep habits.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. First of all, if having the infant in your room isn't creating a problem, why try to fix it? You can work on good sleep habits, while having your infant in your bedroom. It's possible, and many people do it out of necessity because of space limitations or by choice. If your infant still wakes up for the occasional snack, why risk moving the baby into your toddler's room? Also, you still have months of teething and developmental changes ahead of you, and as a parent of a toddler, you already know those occurrences bring about sleep disturbances. If I was you, I'd rather not deal with either an infant or a toddler waking up each other at this stage. When your infant is older and consistently sleeping soundly, then I'd consider the move.

In our case, child #1 slept in her crib in our bedroom (one bedroom apartment) until she was 1.5. We then moved into a two bedroom condo. Child #2 slept in our bedroom until she was nearly 2, and then we moved her into her sister's room. For us, the transitions were easy and there was no CIO. We thought we'd move #2 sooner, but teething dragged on and on, and she was plagued by colds and ear infections during her first half-year at day care. It was easier to keep her near us at night when she woke up fussy and uncomfortable. We just waited until they both were ready.

I think there's a lot of pressure on parents to produce a child who will sleep 12 hours a night--beginning at three months of age--and who never, ever wakes up and fusses for any reason. It's absurd. Do what works for you and your family.

If you opt to transition now, you could switch bedrooms with your children, even if that means they get the bigger room. That way, if either of them wakes up crying at night, now or in the future, they won't disturb your neighbor. It's nice of you to consider your neighbor and try to keep the peace. In a perfect world, no one would be annoyed by crying babies, barking dogs, or talkative neighbors, but we don't live in a perfect world, and we have to try to get along.

OP Here - Hi everyone - thanks so much for the various perspectives and the good advice on how to proceed. We're tending to agree that it's only going to be for a few days (and at 8pm) so our neighbor (with whom we've always had good relations) should get a grip.

I think we're more worried about the middle-of-the-night wakeups, but our hope is that if we do Ferber successfully at bedtime then our baby will know how to fall back asleep during the middle of the night. I think after the holidays next week we'll have a chat with her. We'd like to continue to be good, respectful and friendly neighbors (we've watered her plants when she's gone away) but we also would like to improve the sleep situatoin in our home.

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe so many people think it's OK to subject the neighbor to this. If someone wok me up for extended periods in the middle of the night with something in their control, I would go ballistic. It's one thing if the kid is sick and you are trying to comfort him, it's quite another to intentionally let him cry. And btw, the neighbor asking if the baby is OK is her polite way of telling you that your baby woke her up. Don't put her in the uncomfortable position of having to be more direct.

So what are you suggesting? That nobody with a newborn ever live in a townhouse or apartment or condo?

That is ridiculous. While I think it is fine to bring the neighbor a bottle of wine and say - thanks for your understanding - it ridiculous to suggest that your children must at all times be super quiet b/c of the neighbor. Babies cry. Period. If it bothers the neighbor so much, SHE should move.

We did Ferber at a little over 5 months, and it went really well. 20 minutes the first night, less than 10 the next, then pretty much he started going to sleep. So, I recommend giving Ferber a try!

As for the neighbor, the baby's bed time is presumably before hers, right? And if you let the toddler camp out in your room, you can start in the kids' room anyway, which is good for establishing a nighttime routine where the baby will be for good.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe so many people think it's OK to subject the neighbor to this. If someone wok me up for extended periods in the middle of the night with something in their control, I would go ballistic. It's one thing if the kid is sick and you are trying to comfort him, it's quite another to intentionally let him cry. And btw, the neighbor asking if the baby is OK is her polite way of telling you that your baby woke her up. Don't put her in the uncomfortable position of having to be more direct.

Get a grip - CIO lasts 1 week, 2 weeks tops. You can't handle this discomfort of living in an apartment building? Get a SFH.

Apparently what passes for "polite" in your household is what my household calls passive aggressive.

I'd talk to your neighbor in advance and spell out your plan: limited period of sleep training followed by baby moving to room away from shared wall. That should sound like a win to the neighbor. I also agree that it might be wise to wait a little while to give the sleep training the best odds of success.

don't do CIO.

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe so many people think it's OK to subject the neighbor to this. If someone wok me up for extended periods in the middle of the night with something in their control, I would go ballistic. It's one thing if the kid is sick and you are trying to comfort him, it's quite another to intentionally let him cry. And btw, the neighbor asking if the baby is OK is her polite way of telling you that your baby woke her up. Don't put her in the uncomfortable position of having to be more direct.

Get a grip - CIO lasts 1 week, 2 weeks tops. You can't handle this discomfort of living in an apartment building? Get a SFH.