Anonymous
Post 03/31/2012 20:36     Subject: Median Standard age Sore (SAS) for selected student of HGC in MCPS
To echo the Q of a PP, what is the nonverbal section of the test?
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2012 20:25     Subject: Median Standard age Sore (SAS) for selected student of HGC in MCPS
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The amount of applicants and academic level of applicants are different in each consortium. So, selecting criterion for HGC students has to be different based on which consortia they live.

Here is median SAS of selected students for Pin Crest/Oak View center that I got from the letter of MCPS

Verbal: 130
Quantitative: 122
Nonverbal: 126

I hope other parents can post their median SAS score of selected students from the other consortium.


Is this similar to (a) cogat-type scores, (b) iq scores on wisc if you are trying to compare with cutoffs for other gifted programs in other jurisdictions? or is it very mcps-specific for the norms for the sas and scoring?


My daughter took the WISC because we applied to some private schools as well, and her scores on the matching sections of the WISC (verbal/quantitative) were significantly (~8-10 points or so) higher than the scores she got on this test. Just one data point, and it's possible she was just having a bad day when testing for the HGC.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2012 19:44     Subject: Re:Median Standard age Sore (SAS) for selected student of HGC in MCPS
Does anyone know exactly what "non-verbal" entails? Is it puzzles and patterns?

Also, if you add up the three numbers, do you get a composite? Like an IQ type designation? Does anyone know the name of the test they took?
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2012 19:19     Subject: Median Standard age Sore (SAS) for selected student of HGC in MCPS
Anonymous wrote:The amount of applicants and academic level of applicants are different in each consortium. So, selecting criterion for HGC students has to be different based on which consortia they live.

Here is median SAS of selected students for Pin Crest/Oak View center that I got from the letter of MCPS

Verbal: 130
Quantitative: 122
Nonverbal: 126

I hope other parents can post their median SAS score of selected students from the other consortium.


Is this similar to (a) cogat-type scores, (b) iq scores on wisc if you are trying to compare with cutoffs for other gifted programs in other jurisdictions? or is it very mcps-specific for the norms for the sas and scoring?
Anonymous
Post 03/29/2012 18:09     Subject: Re:Median Standard age Sore (SAS) for selected student of HGC in MCPS
Anonymous wrote:How do you know your kids were "highly recommended"? Do teachers share that if you ask?


Not the PP, but our child's teacher recommended that we apply and she said she'd provide an excellent recommendation, so we have no reason to believe she didn't. Our kid had all As and Os and was above our HGC's median in two of three categories and was waitlisted. Another child with near exact scores, grades and recommendations from the same school was not accepted this year, so it's hard to predict how they decide who gets accepted. With so many qualified applicants and so few spots, it can't be an easy process.
Anonymous
Post 03/29/2012 17:09     Subject: Median Standard age Sore (SAS) for selected student of HGC in MCPS
How do you know your kids were "highly recommended"? Do teachers share that if you ask?
Anonymous
Post 03/29/2012 16:59     Subject: Median Standard age Sore (SAS) for selected student of HGC in MCPS
Anonymous wrote:I agree the range is more important than the mean and median. But as we did not get it from the MCPS letter, what can we do?

Another question is how to evaluate those scores. Below is an example.

Verbal Quant Nonverbal total
Median 134 131 129 394
Child A 150 126 129 405
Child B 134 132 129 395

Assuming Child A and Child B are from the same consortium, and have all O’s and A’s in their report cards, their recommendations are also similar, who has priority to be selected?


My kid was basically Child A in the example above (scored 8 points above median, same as median, and 1 point below the median on the admissions test) and was not selected for placement (and yes, my kid has all Os, As, and Is on report card, is above grade level in reading and math, and was highly recommended by teacher/principal). And no we're not appealing because, at the end of the day, there probably isn't any meaningful difference between Child A and Child B because both would be well placed in the HGC program.
Anonymous
Post 03/29/2012 16:22     Subject: Median Standard age Sore (SAS) for selected student of HGC in MCPS
^^ I meant straight A grades.
Anonymous
Post 03/29/2012 16:22     Subject: Median Standard age Sore (SAS) for selected student of HGC in MCPS
Well, my DD was a few points around the median on all three scores and was not accepted, with straight A scores and excellent teacher recs.

My DS had one really high score and the other two at or under the median and lower grades. He was accepted.

I would have preferred for both to go but DS definitely needed the HGC and DD, not as much.
Anonymous
Post 03/29/2012 16:20     Subject: Median Standard age Sore (SAS) for selected student of HGC in MCPS
Anonymous wrote:I really would not focus too much on comparing TPES to the HCG process. The applicant pool to TPES primary magnet is totally different. It has lots of folks who are simply trying to escape their home school. I know many families with very bright kids who did not bother applying to the TPES magnet, but will apply to the HCG magnet. The few kids I know of who did apply to and get into the TPES magnet were bright kids, but not noticeably higher performing than many kids who didn't bother applying.


How do you know the applicant pool is totally different? Quite likely many of the same kids apply to both. The reason the comparison is useful is because in both instances you are dealing with Dr. Monique Felder's office in the Division of Accelerated and Enriched Instruction. It's a subjective process either way and not transparent. I think it should just be based on test scores, instead the AEI panel is allowed to introduce their own biases to the process. Not to mention the school doesn't always bother to send the most updated information on reading or math level.
Anonymous
Post 03/29/2012 16:20     Subject: Median Standard age Sore (SAS) for selected student of HGC in MCPS
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My guess is that they would pick Child A, who as an outlier may have more difficulty getting accommodated in his/her regular school.


And yet, Child B is equally qualified for that seat, i.e. could presumably succeed equally if given access to the HGC. Tweak your scenario a little bit -- suppose Child A is in on grade level math, despite the higher level math being offered at his/her school. Assume Child B is a hard worker or loves math, so he/she is in 2 years ahead math? Maybe Child A is so bright he/she is not engaged enough to work ahead. Maybe Child A hates math and doesn't care to be advanced. Who knows? Only the parent, who is only a supplicant in this decision making process.

It's probably exceedingly rare that any two applicants are identical on all application criteria but one.


Don't get me wrong -- I'm not saying they SHOULD pick A! Just that I think that's what they would do.

I think there should be spots for A and B.
Anonymous
Post 03/29/2012 15:26     Subject: Median Standard age Sore (SAS) for selected student of HGC in MCPS
I really would not focus too much on comparing TPES to the HCG process. The applicant pool to TPES primary magnet is totally different. It has lots of folks who are simply trying to escape their home school. I know many families with very bright kids who did not bother applying to the TPES magnet, but will apply to the HCG magnet. The few kids I know of who did apply to and get into the TPES magnet were bright kids, but not noticeably higher performing than many kids who didn't bother applying.
Anonymous
Post 03/29/2012 15:04     Subject: Median Standard age Sore (SAS) for selected student of HGC in MCPS
"suppose Child A is in on grade level math"

remember, the test is above grade level. So, Child A's math score is not bad at all, but not outliner
Anonymous
Post 03/29/2012 14:57     Subject: Re:Median Standard age Sore (SAS) for selected student of HGC in MCPS
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Are the test scores as important as teacher recommendations? My experience with an application to TPES is that they were pretty much irrelevant in the end, as what the teacher had to say about reading and math level was weighted much more heavily. I understand also that AEI is allowed to include factors such as whether the student is likely to get what they need out of the home school and if they decide you'll be fine at the home school, it doesn't matter how high your scores are. The process is not transparent by design.


TPES is not an HGC and the kids are younger. So, that experience is not relevant.


Our experience at TPES was quite the opposite. Our son was waitlisted, which as MCPS described it meant that he was qualified for the program and would get a seat if one opened up (unlikely). When I asked why our son ended up on the waitlist, the central MCPS administering the application process told me it was because, although his test scores were higher than the minimum test score of the "accepted and waitlisted" group, they were not high enough to be accepted in the first pool. Thus, test scores seemed to play a BIG role in admission to TPES.

Agree that the process is not transparent by design.
Anonymous
Post 03/29/2012 14:52     Subject: Median Standard age Sore (SAS) for selected student of HGC in MCPS
Anonymous wrote:My guess is that they would pick Child A, who as an outlier may have more difficulty getting accommodated in his/her regular school.


And yet, Child B is equally qualified for that seat, i.e. could presumably succeed equally if given access to the HGC. Tweak your scenario a little bit -- suppose Child A is in on grade level math, despite the higher level math being offered at his/her school. Assume Child B is a hard worker or loves math, so he/she is in 2 years ahead math? Maybe Child A is so bright he/she is not engaged enough to work ahead. Maybe Child A hates math and doesn't care to be advanced. Who knows? Only the parent, who is only a supplicant in this decision making process.

It's probably exceedingly rare that any two applicants are identical on all application criteria but one.