Uhmmm...that's what concomitantly means...do things all at the same time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think women over 40, regardless of the clinic they choose to use, need to improve their own body first before considering IVF. It increases the odds of IVF working. Consider acupuncture, giving up red meat, seeing a chinese medicine doctor, or someone who specializes in fertility such as Randine Lewis for at least a yr before trying IVF. And I would not limit your clinics to just the one around the corner. Shady Grove sees lots of people but they aren't the ones with the best statistics for women over 40. Consider out of state clinics if necessary also. I tried SG and had no success. But when I incorporated these other things and went out of state I got pg...at 44.

I think this is somewhat poor advice...at 40+ run, don't walk to your nearest RE.

Do all the other stuff concomitantly, but GET to your RE...it will take a few months to get all the testing etc. done...you do NOT want to waste precious time waiting for your body to get healthy...fertility almost exponentially decreases at 40+.

And if you decide to go out of state, for state of the ART, they will most likely accept all the routine diagnostics from the practice you go to locally.

If it will take a few months to get all the testing done before IVF actually begins then why not try the alternative stuff while you're waiting for your cycle to begin? There's no delay then. And many women don't do IVF's back to back month to month. They wait a couple months in between, sometimes because they want the meds to be out of their system before they try again, sometimes because they are grieving over the loss, etc...so why not do alternative meds during that time also? Then where is the waste of time?

And consider that if you run to the nearest RE and push for as many IVF cycles as you possibly can, you may be spending an enormous amount of money whereas alternative meds can boost your chances of pg and save you some money possibly in the end.

I'm 42 and saw Dr. Abbasi at Columbia. Although it took awhile, our results were great!
I liked that Dr. Abbasi never smade my age an issue. Highly recommend her.

I'm the PP who had success w/ IVF on first try from SG at age 40. I did not have PGD on the embryos. We had a lot retrieved and implanted the best 2 on day 5. (one took) PGD wasn't recommended or discussed at all. I think if you have multiple losses, however, it might be worthwhile.

FWIW, I would not delay seeking treatment. If you want to also consider herbs/acupuncture/dietary changes at the same time, I'm sure it would be helpful, but I think delaying a year to do so is a mistake since fertility drops so rapidly at our age. Just my opinion.

Anonymous wrote:I think women over 40, regardless of the clinic they choose to use, need to improve their own body first before considering IVF. It increases the odds of IVF working. Consider acupuncture, giving up red meat, seeing a chinese medicine doctor, or someone who specializes in fertility such as Randine Lewis for at least a yr before trying IVF. And I would not limit your clinics to just the one around the corner. Shady Grove sees lots of people but they aren't the ones with the best statistics for women over 40. Consider out of state clinics if necessary also. I tried SG and had no success. But when I incorporated these other things and went out of state I got pg...at 44.

I think this is somewhat poor advice...at 40+ run, don't walk to your nearest RE.

Do all the other stuff concomitantly, but GET to your RE...it will take a few months to get all the testing etc. done...you do NOT want to waste precious time waiting for your body to get healthy...fertility almost exponentially decreases at 40+.

And if you decide to go out of state, for state of the ART, they will most likely accept all the routine diagnostics from the practice you go to locally.

As I said though, it's not the opinion of one DCUM poster. I posted a webmd link that quotes from the Journal of Fertility and Sterility. Huge FSH fluctuation is normal for women of advanced age or women who might be having hormonal issues (early onset of menopause). If you think it's luck, then of course, don't follow the suggestions I'm offering.

Anonymous wrote:The break I suggested is because these changes take months for improvement to be seen (with the exception of acupuncture since the European study shows that before/after implantation acupuncture improves the outcome of IVF). IVF is far more expensive then herbs, PGD, acupuncture, and vitamins. I took this break and when I returned to do IVF cycles, my numbers were dramatically different. I began to produce more normal eggs. So I would suggest waiting and working on your body without any hesitation at all because I think it can help many women. Again, I posted a link to show it's not just the opinion of one DCUM poster. Like I said, if taking this time makes any woman feel uncomfortable, then don't take this time. Instead, incorporate alternative meds in between your cycles.

Listen, I'm a huge believer in acupuncture for almost everything; however, the changes in your body could have been just luck. I blew a Day 3 FSH of 51 about two years ago, and nowadays, it's at 9 with normal estradiol. I didn't do anything. No diet change, no acupuncture, nothing. It really doesn't mean anything.

The break I suggested is because these changes take months for improvement to be seen (with the exception of acupuncture since the European study shows that before/after implantation acupuncture improves the outcome of IVF). IVF is far more expensive then herbs, PGD, acupuncture, and vitamins. I took this break and when I returned to do IVF cycles, my numbers were dramatically different. I began to produce more normal eggs. So I would suggest waiting and working on your body without any hesitation at all because I think it can help many women. Again, I posted a link to show it's not just the opinion of one DCUM poster. Like I said, if taking this time makes any woman feel uncomfortable, then don't take this time. Instead, incorporate alternative meds in between your cycles.

I can't help but think that there are women on this board and others that I frequent who have said they also used acupuncture, chinese medicine, dietary changes etc. and still were not able to conceive. But you don't hear them as much because they moved on to donor egg, adoption, or are living child-free.

But you're right, if you have the money to make this all work (and it's not an insubstantial amount of money you're talking about, between acupuncture, herbs, PGD, and seeking a clinic out of the area) then why NOT try it all. I would just hesitate to suggest to a woman of advanced maternal age that she should take a break of 9 months to a year to do so.

Anonymous wrote:From that article:

As good as it sounds, acupuncture is clearly not the panacea for all fertility problems. As Dillard tells WebMD, in instances where a structural defect exists -- such as a blocked fallopian tube or a fibroid tumor -- acupuncture won't help you get pregnant.

Likewise, once past a certain age, no amount of tickling your Qi is going to increase necessary hormones that have long gone out of production.

I'm not the PP who called this "unproven mumbo jumbo" -- that is too harsh. I've seen you post before on your success with chinese medicine, nutrition and acupuncture. You should be thrilled with your success and I'm wishing you all the best with your upcoming birth, but I think that we have to be careful not to confuse correlation with causation, here. Was your success due to the fact that you changed your diet? The acupuncture? The herbs? The new clinic you said you tried, with presumably a better lab and a good protocol? A better mindset? Or just the fact that your lucky egg came up during the last cycle?

I am 40 and I did none of what you did. And I am also pregnant. (Conceived at 40 years, 4 months.) However, I would not tell people NOT to do acupuncture or NOT to change their diet because that's what "worked" for me. I have no idea what "worked" for me. I personally believe that there is far more to luck in this enterprise than we may want to believe...but changing diet/doing acupuncture/taking herbs etc may give us a way to feel as if we are exercising control.

Again, I think it is wonderful that you are having a baby, I'm completely serious about that. But what worked for you may not work for everyone, and taking a year "off" when one is already facing age-related infertility may not be the right answer for everyone, etiher.

PP there is a huge difference between fertility up to the age of 41 and fertility afterwards. Getting pregnant at 40 is still very possible. Getting pregnant at 42 or worse, at 44, is much harder. A woman needs all the help she can get after the age of 41 or 42. I have posted on this before. I didn't need to, I could just sit here at home and be happy that I'm about to deliver in a couple of weeks. But I wanted to help other women who might also find success with what I did. I did numerous IVF cycles but it was when I incorporated acupuncture, chinese meds, changed my diet, and took vitamins and supplements that my RE started noticing my numbers were changing. My FSH went down, my estradiol went up, etc.. He specifically said, "You're getting older but your numbers are getting better. I don't know what you're doing, but it's working." So I think there may be more to these alternative treatments than just correlation. I have a friend who gave birth at 46 who did the same as me - combine alternative treatment with IVF. A positive mindset is always beneficial for infertility; Harvard University proved that with a study they did. Acupuncture relaxes you and probably contributes to a positive mindset also. But acupuncture is proven to increase blood flow to the ovaries and uterus, which is why Shady Grove, along with other clinics now, are allowing acupuncturists to do a before/after implantation acupuncture for their patients. At 44, no matter what we do, more of our eggs are damaged. So of course I did chromosomal testing to ensure that the only embryo's that were put back in me were the healthiest (again, no guarantee even with this as they can't test for everything).

I took a break of 9 mos - 1 yr before I started trying IVF again around age 41. Some women will feel uncomfortable waiting so long to do IVF because they feel the clock is really ticking for them. Understandable. Maybe they should do alternative treatments in between their IVF cycles then and continue with only acupuncture throughout. One thing i did not do is simultaneously take chinese meds and IVF meds. When I did IVF, I stopped the chinese meds. But rather than continue to doubt, why not give it a try?

....Submitted too early.....

And agree with the rest of your post. I would have written what you did, in fact, but was too lazy

I am the poster who had a terrible ttc day yesterday (back on page 1) and just wanted to say that I agree with you, PP, about LUCK playing a huge part in all if this......

From that article:

As good as it sounds, acupuncture is clearly not the panacea for all fertility problems. As Dillard tells WebMD, in instances where a structural defect exists -- such as a blocked fallopian tube or a fibroid tumor -- acupuncture won't help you get pregnant.

Likewise, once past a certain age, no amount of tickling your Qi is going to increase necessary hormones that have long gone out of production.

I'm not the PP who called this "unproven mumbo jumbo" -- that is too harsh. I've seen you post before on your success with chinese medicine, nutrition and acupuncture. You should be thrilled with your success and I'm wishing you all the best with your upcoming birth, but I think that we have to be careful not to confuse correlation with causation, here. Was your success due to the fact that you changed your diet? The acupuncture? The herbs? The new clinic you said you tried, with presumably a better lab and a good protocol? A better mindset? Or just the fact that your lucky egg came up during the last cycle?

I am 40 and I did none of what you did. And I am also pregnant. (Conceived at 40 years, 4 months.) However, I would not tell people NOT to do acupuncture or NOT to change their diet because that's what "worked" for me. I have no idea what "worked" for me. I personally believe that there is far more to luck in this enterprise than we may want to believe...but changing diet/doing acupuncture/taking herbs etc may give us a way to feel as if we are exercising control.

Again, I think it is wonderful that you are having a baby, I'm completely serious about that. But what worked for you may not work for everyone, and taking a year "off" when one is already facing age-related infertility may not be the right answer for everyone, etiher.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think women over 40, regardless of the clinic they choose to use, need to improve their own body first before considering IVF. It increases the odds of IVF working. Consider acupuncture, giving up red meat, seeing a chinese medicine doctor, or someone who specializes in fertility such as Randine Lewis for at least a yr before trying IVF. And I would not limit your clinics to just the one around the corner. Shady Grove sees lots of people but they aren't the ones with the best statistics for women over 40. Consider out of state clinics if necessary also. I tried SG and had no success. But when I incorporated these other things and went out of state I got pg...at 44.

What??????????

I would NEVER EVER piss away a year with unproven mumbo jumbo when I'm 40 and trying to have a baby. Shame on you for even putting this in writing. Seriously!?!?!?

If you're over 41, post again in two years and let us know if you had a live birth. In the meanwhile, here's some more "unproven" mumbo jumbo for you, published in the Journal of Fertility and Sterility and other experts talking about acupuncture and chinese medicine for fertility:

http://www.webmd.com/infertility-and-reproduction/features/ancient-art-of-infertility-treatment

And to add, perhaps there are some quotes from the Journal of Stupidity and Ignorance that you'd like to share with us too?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think women over 40, regardless of the clinic they choose to use, need to improve their own body first before considering IVF. It increases the odds of IVF working. Consider acupuncture, giving up red meat, seeing a chinese medicine doctor, or someone who specializes in fertility such as Randine Lewis for at least a yr before trying IVF. And I would not limit your clinics to just the one around the corner. Shady Grove sees lots of people but they aren't the ones with the best statistics for women over 40. Consider out of state clinics if necessary also. I tried SG and had no success. But when I incorporated these other things and went out of state I got pg...at 44.

What??????????

I would NEVER EVER piss away a year with unproven mumbo jumbo when I'm 40 and trying to have a baby. Shame on you for even putting this in writing. Seriously!?!?!?

If you're over 41, post again in two years and let us know if you had a live birth. In the meanwhile, here's some more "unproven" mumbo jumbo for you, published in the Journal of Fertility and Sterility and other experts talking about acupuncture and chinese medicine for fertility:

http://www.webmd.com/infertility-and-reproduction/features/ancient-art-of-infertility-treatment