Anonymous
03/19/2012 10:27
Subject: Re:Counseled Out Of Sidwell
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Many private schools counsel kids out, sometimes many per year. There are many reasons -- a child who is consuming financial aid that the school simply doesn't "want" any more; a child whose parents are unpopular with the administration and/or have complained; a child who is not academically progressing; a child who is believed to be academically advanced beyond the capacity of the school to provide full educational programming and support; a child who is not believed to be a social "fit" by the school. This is one of the many risks of private schools -- the entire venture contains an actual element of "popularity contest". That doesn't mean that all privates are bad, or even that counseling-out isn't sometimes the right thing to do (sometimes it is).
You've noted from prior posts that there are indeed kids who are counseled out who go on to do well at other schools, private and public. That's because counseling-out is inherently highly subjective. It does NOT mean that a child is dumb, or dangerous, or non-social.
Now, if the school takes your tuition payment, in full, and THEN forces you out after the refund deadline and refuses to pay a refund, THAT would be different !
I find it hard to believe that schools counsel out kids regularly. It would make the school look bad and the admissions department look bad too. These kids are screened so hard before entering it is unlikely they woould be wrong about so many kids. If there is a school that regularly does this then that school is f-------d up! It is damaging to kids down the line to move schools abrubtly for no apparent reason like a move for a new job. For many kids, especially those whose option after leaving a private school would be entering a school that mauch larger,or a failing school in a rough area this would be too much for them. You can't put kids in a bubble then just take them out. That just seems wrong.
Schools don't do this for "no apparent reason." And they don't do it "so many" times. ALL schools do this on occasion if there is a child for whom they are a bad fit. There are plenty of parents out there who will keep a child in a school even if its not working, to the detriment of the child. They need the nudge.
There are private schools that will take kids mid-year. Generally, however, this isn't done mid-year and parents have an opportunity to plan.
Anonymous
03/19/2012 10:22
Subject: Counseled Out Of Sidwell
Assuming it's done carefully and coordinated with parents, I actually think the fact any school will "counsel out" a child speaks highly of the school. Not every school is the right "fit" for every child; it seems inevitable that there will be situations where the child and school discover they don't match. Maybe the academics are too hard or too easy, maybe the kid longs for more of some special program (theater, sports, tuba, whatever). It would be really unfortunate if the school ignored these mismatches, and kept every child enrolled despite the problems.
I respect a school that spots kids who are not fitting in, works to help them fit better, and (if necessary) works with the family to place the child in a better-fit school. I'd imagine that when this happens, many families appreciate the school's efforts, rather than resenting them.
I respect a school that spots kids who are not fitting in, works to help them fit better, and (if necessary) works with the family to place the child in a better-fit school. I'd imagine that when this happens, many families appreciate the school's efforts, rather than resenting them.
Anonymous
03/19/2012 10:11
Subject: Re:Counseled Out Of Sidwell
Anonymous wrote:Many private schools counsel kids out, sometimes many per year. There are many reasons -- a child who is consuming financial aid that the school simply doesn't "want" any more; a child whose parents are unpopular with the administration and/or have complained; a child who is not academically progressing; a child who is believed to be academically advanced beyond the capacity of the school to provide full educational programming and support; a child who is not believed to be a social "fit" by the school. This is one of the many risks of private schools -- the entire venture contains an actual element of "popularity contest". That doesn't mean that all privates are bad, or even that counseling-out isn't sometimes the right thing to do (sometimes it is).
You've noted from prior posts that there are indeed kids who are counseled out who go on to do well at other schools, private and public. That's because counseling-out is inherently highly subjective. It does NOT mean that a child is dumb, or dangerous, or non-social.
Now, if the school takes your tuition payment, in full, and THEN forces you out after the refund deadline and refuses to pay a refund, THAT would be different !
I find it hard to believe that schools counsel out kids regularly. It would make the school look bad and the admissions department look bad too. These kids are screened so hard before entering it is unlikely they woould be wrong about so many kids. If there is a school that regularly does this then that school is f-------d up! It is damaging to kids down the line to move schools abrubtly for no apparent reason like a move for a new job. For many kids, especially those whose option after leaving a private school would be entering a school that mauch larger,or a failing school in a rough area this would be too much for them. You can't put kids in a bubble then just take them out. That just seems wrong.
Anonymous
03/19/2012 09:48
Subject: Counseled Out Of Sidwell
I personally know of 4 now-twenty-somethings who were asked to leave Sidwell at some point in late MS. All were 'lifers' and, interestingly, all had lifer siblings who DID "make it all the way through Sidwell" and graduate.
As best I can tell, in all 4 cases the decision to leave was deemed best by both the school and the families. In three cases, it was merely academics / LD, and in one case it was a case of academics plus social concerns.
These kids who left Sidwell went to: Burke, Field, boarding school, Field.
As best I can tell, in all 4 cases the decision to leave was deemed best by both the school and the families. In three cases, it was merely academics / LD, and in one case it was a case of academics plus social concerns.
These kids who left Sidwell went to: Burke, Field, boarding school, Field.
Anonymous
03/18/2012 22:06
Subject: Re:Counseled Out Of Sidwell
Many private schools counsel kids out, sometimes many per year. There are many reasons -- a child who is consuming financial aid that the school simply doesn't "want" any more; a child whose parents are unpopular with the administration and/or have complained; a child who is not academically progressing; a child who is believed to be academically advanced beyond the capacity of the school to provide full educational programming and support; a child who is not believed to be a social "fit" by the school. This is one of the many risks of private schools -- the entire venture contains an actual element of "popularity contest". That doesn't mean that all privates are bad, or even that counseling-out isn't sometimes the right thing to do (sometimes it is).
You've noted from prior posts that there are indeed kids who are counseled out who go on to do well at other schools, private and public. That's because counseling-out is inherently highly subjective. It does NOT mean that a child is dumb, or dangerous, or non-social.
Now, if the school takes your tuition payment, in full, and THEN forces you out after the refund deadline and refuses to pay a refund, THAT would be different !
You've noted from prior posts that there are indeed kids who are counseled out who go on to do well at other schools, private and public. That's because counseling-out is inherently highly subjective. It does NOT mean that a child is dumb, or dangerous, or non-social.
Now, if the school takes your tuition payment, in full, and THEN forces you out after the refund deadline and refuses to pay a refund, THAT would be different !
Anonymous
03/16/2012 20:39
Subject: Re:Counseled Out Of Sidwell
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Are FA families at greater risk for "Councel Out" from top privates?
FA families don't need to be counseled out, the school just has to offer no aid the following year so the student will leave.
First off, schools do not do this. Secondly, in most, but not all cases the kids who are give FA to allow them to attend are given FA because of what they bring to the school in terms of their brain, and their future test scores and college placement. You don't lose being smart, the way a parent may loose a job.
Anonymous
03/16/2012 20:29
Subject: Re:Counseled Out Of Sidwell
Anonymous wrote:This is very hard to explain because it was hard for me to understand. Counseled out means they tell you what theY can do for your child and you decide it's not going to work or you try to make it work and it is like a square peg in a round hole. Your not happy, Your child is not happy and the school is doing the best they can.
In public they are only legally required to give services to severely learning disabled and gifted and talented with minor disabilities.
My son was neither. Just normal with minor learning disabilities. He was not a behavior issue at all so the first private was not asking us to leave, he was not a disruption at all.
Our educational consultant basically explained it - in laymen terms- as long as they put him in e lowest level classes and he has a C - there is no need for an IDP. My son actually did not qualify for an IDP.
So neither school kicked us out - but there are the long pauses and the what does your educational consultant recommend comments and the so is that possible for your family but you know you are welcome here.
So you go to a class size of 15, get a private tutor and thank god for 3 recesses and gym daily because the alternate had you at psychologists, neurologist, and researching the side effects of meds.
I had the same problem with public. If he can past the MSAs, and doesn't bring down the school average, he can not get help, no matter how severe they know his problems are.
Anonymous
03/16/2012 19:35
Subject: Re:Counseled Out Of Sidwell
The thing is, though, a 10 y.o. or even a 15 y.o. is still very much a work-in-progress. As a parent of teens and college-age kids, including 2 Sidwell grads and 2 current students), I've seen kids get counseled out, and it was painful. I'm sure the school tries to do it in a sensitive way, but there's really no kind way to say "your kid isn't cutting it." And, honestly, there were kids who weren't counseled out at middle school who struggled in high school. Unlike Lake Woebegone, all the children are not above average. So, if the school retains kids who don't go on to succeed academically, what makes them so sure that in the counseling-out process they've correctly identified those who won't succeed? And, yes, I know Sidwell is not the only school that does this, but it is dismaying nonetheless.
Anonymous
03/16/2012 17:51
Subject: Counseled Out Of Sidwell
For any of the competitive private schools, admissions is based on probability of success. Obviously the AD has more information about a student at the age of 10 or 15 than they do at the age of 4 or 5. Thus, when the 4 or 5 year old matures, there is a better sense on the part of the faculty how well the AD did for that student.
Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. That hardly means that there is something wrong with the student, but rather than the student and the school are no longer a good match. Hence, counseled out.
Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. That hardly means that there is something wrong with the student, but rather than the student and the school are no longer a good match. Hence, counseled out.
Anonymous
03/16/2012 16:43
Subject: Re:Counseled Out Of Sidwell
This is very hard to explain because it was hard for me to understand. Counseled out means they tell you what theY can do for your child and you decide it's not going to work or you try to make it work and it is like a square peg in a round hole. Your not happy, Your child is not happy and the school is doing the best they can.
In public they are only legally required to give services to severely learning disabled and gifted and talented with minor disabilities.
My son was neither. Just normal with minor learning disabilities. He was not a behavior issue at all so the first private was not asking us to leave, he was not a disruption at all.
Our educational consultant basically explained it - in laymen terms- as long as they put him in e lowest level classes and he has a C - there is no need for an IDP. My son actually did not qualify for an IDP.
So neither school kicked us out - but there are the long pauses and the what does your educational consultant recommend comments and the so is that possible for your family but you know you are welcome here.
So you go to a class size of 15, get a private tutor and thank god for 3 recesses and gym daily because the alternate had you at psychologists, neurologist, and researching the side effects of meds.
In public they are only legally required to give services to severely learning disabled and gifted and talented with minor disabilities.
My son was neither. Just normal with minor learning disabilities. He was not a behavior issue at all so the first private was not asking us to leave, he was not a disruption at all.
Our educational consultant basically explained it - in laymen terms- as long as they put him in e lowest level classes and he has a C - there is no need for an IDP. My son actually did not qualify for an IDP.
So neither school kicked us out - but there are the long pauses and the what does your educational consultant recommend comments and the so is that possible for your family but you know you are welcome here.
So you go to a class size of 15, get a private tutor and thank god for 3 recesses and gym daily because the alternate had you at psychologists, neurologist, and researching the side effects of meds.
Anonymous
03/16/2012 13:47
Subject: Re:Counseled Out Of Sidwell
Kids got counseled out or my private high school ages ago. This is nothing new and not specific to Sidwell at all. Why do people have such a chip about that school? It's weird.
Anonymous
03/16/2012 13:38
Subject: Re:Counseled Out Of Sidwell
Anonymous wrote:I also have a kid at MCPS at a competitive high school and the only kids they counsel out are those who have set fire to the school or bring weapons.
That's not counseling out, that's expulsion. It can happen at any school, including Sidwell.
Anonymous
03/16/2012 13:26
Subject: Re:Counseled Out Of Sidwell
I do know a kid counseled out of sidwell who went to field. It's not unusual.
I also have a kid at MCPS at a competitive high school and the only kids they counsel out are those who have set fire to the school or bring weapons. There are tons of ivy bound high achievers but are also tons of kids with learning issues and a whole school within a school for kids with serious disabilities.
I also have a kid at MCPS at a competitive high school and the only kids they counsel out are those who have set fire to the school or bring weapons. There are tons of ivy bound high achievers but are also tons of kids with learning issues and a whole school within a school for kids with serious disabilities.
Anonymous
03/16/2012 13:16
Subject: Re:Counseled Out Of Sidwell
Not the op or the pp who was counseled out of public but I'll offer a possible explanation. Yes, public school has to provide a free and appropriate education to everyone. But the school's definition of what is appropriate and the parent's definition may differ. Not sure if this happened to the pp but I can see a scenario where the public school would tell a family that its child cannot be supported in a mainstream classroom. But the alternative program the public school offers may not be palatable to the parents. So the parents may interpret this as being counseled out. Just a possible scenario.
Anonymous
03/16/2012 13:14
Subject: Counseled Out Of Sidwell
You can't get thrown out of public (i.e. your local school district) per se. You can be told that they're recommending a placement for your DC that is unacceptable to you (full day special ed for kids with emotional and behavioral issues). And you can be told that your DC would fare better in an environment with smaller classes and more individualized attention (and if you have the resources to provide that, you might take their advice).