Our 4 yo often is up until 9:30 or 10. If she doesn't nap, she's super cranky all day, but will go down earlier. Like the other PP, it's not worth it to me to have a cranky kid, so we just adjust to a later bedtime. The good news is that she sleeps until 7:30 every day! (Too bad the other kid doesn't!)

10 is normal for my 3yo. She seems wired similarly to me.

No nap. We do 20 min of TV at 7, when I put baby to bed. Consistent routine every night. Bath, banana/milk, 1 story, brush teeth, 2nd story. 5 min cuddle in bed, lights out with music on. if DS gets up, we march him back to bed.

also, we run the crap out of him---he goes to the park/outside time 2x a day, rain or shine. lots of activity, but winding down at night. good luck.

Our 3.5yr old naps for 45mins and is asleep by 8pm at the latest. She's in bed at 7 so it takes her a while to settle down. Definitely make the nap shorter and bedtime earlier. Good luck. I could not handle 10pm but we had to cut the nap to get there around 3yrs old.

Agree with no TV before bedtime - but also dim the lights in the house. Sets the *bedtime* mood...

My three and five year olds go to bed no earlier than 10:30pm. I wish I could convince my wife to stop allowing this.

Agree with cutting the nap and just doing "quiet time" instead of nap. No TV or screen time for at least 1-2 hours before bed. Give her a protein-rich dinner or snack right before bed -- we usually give a mug of milk or yogurt. Do you give her a warm bath as part of the bedtime routine? We've found that helps make our DC sleepy. Take toys/books out of her room, so it's boring -- it should just be a place to sleep, not a place to entertain herself. Good luck!

You can tell if she's sleep-deprived by her mood -- is she crabby, especially in the mornings? Is she hard to wake in the mornings?

Agree with the no tv in the evening. It helps so much with my 3.5 y.o. daughter. Also, we sometimes do a little evening chamomile tea party before bed. (No sweetner.)

cant give small children melatonin... its cane make them very sick... research... mine wont sleep and shares a room with a sibling who has to get up early... making our whole family nuts

Same w my 3 yr old. Only thing that settles him down seems to be making the room pitch dark, soft lullaby music, and not engaging in any talk despite his attempts. Once all that is in place, he falls asleep quickly. But if even a slight light is coming through the crack of the door, he can't seem to fall asleep. I turn on the night light /humidifier (has a light) after he falls asleep. I won't pretend this always works but it's the best I've got and the recent technique that seems to work.

OP, I'm in exactly the same position with my 3yo DS - even the same bed times, and the napping at daycare while no napping at home on the weekends. I've concluded the problem is primarily the nap at daycare - on the rare days that he doesn't nap at daycare, he falls asleep on schedule at home. It's rough, and daycare is not willing to accommodate phasing out the nap, for the reasons noted by PPs. Sigh. So no good advice, just empathy.

OP, feeling your pain, though our 3 yr old is only staying up till 8:30 or 9:00. Oddly, for us it is no different during the weekends (when he doesn't nap). Let us know how it turns out for you.

Yes. Cut the nap. I just had this conversation with our son's daycare teacher today. Last night he was still up at 10:30!!! He just lays on his bed and stares at the ceiling and sings and talks to himself- so it is not like he is being naughty- but he will not fall asleep. We have cut his weekend naps and he is out like a light by 8. Our daycare teacher agreed to wake him up after an hour- they are doing that for a few other kids in the class. I think that satisfies their licensing requirements. I am hoping that will cause him to fall asleep earlier.

No TV or screen time for several hours (not just one) before bed can make a difference.

You need to cut out the nap. We went through the same thing with my now 3 1/2 year old starting pretty soon after 3. She was still napping at daycare but we cut out the naps on the weekend. When she started a preschool with aftercare this past fall we tried shorter naps and then just cut the nap out entirely. There was a bit of an adjustment period where she would be very tired late day, but now she regularly goes to sleep at 7:30/8:00, but really more dependent on me getting my act together by 7:30 than her ability/willingness to go to sleep. She normally gets up between 7:30/8 and on the weekends may sleep in past 9 if her older sister does not wake her up. She is getting more sleep now than she was when she was napping for an hour and going to sleep at 10.

If you are dealing with a daycare in DC they may be resistant to cutting the nap because regulations require some period of time in a cot for nap time at this age. It is an awful catch-22 because they are so tired from staying up until 10 that of course they will fall asleep at 1:00 given the opportunity. I found our preschool aftercare program was much more willing to work with us to figure this out.