Anonymous
Post 01/24/2012 12:08     Subject: Romney Paid 13.9% Tax Rate on $21.6 Million in Income.
takoma wrote:On the issue of blaming the game or the player:

The difference between Romney and someone like Buffett is that although both follow the laws to save their money, Buffett publicly opposes those laws while Romney tries to make them even more favorable to himself.

I think I have asked this before, but missed the answer, if anyone has given one: Can any of you explain why income earned by workers deserves to be treated more unfavorably than capital gains? I understand that capital gain is tied to investment, which helps the economy, but earned income tends to be spent on consumption, which is the principal driver of the economy,



Economists would tell you that capital gains deserve a lower tax rate (some would say zero) because it is effectively money that has been double-taxed (i.e., you made your investment with after-tax dollars and then you are taxed again when you realize a gain).

Personally, I disagree with the notion, but that's the policy rationale.
takoma
Post 01/24/2012 12:05     Subject: Romney Paid 13.9% Tax Rate on $21.6 Million in Income.
On the issue of blaming the game or the player:

The difference between Romney and someone like Buffett is that although both follow the laws to save their money, Buffett publicly opposes those laws while Romney tries to make them even more favorable to himself.

I think I have asked this before, but missed the answer, if anyone has given one: Can any of you explain why income earned by workers deserves to be treated more unfavorably than capital gains? I understand that capital gain is tied to investment, which helps the economy, but earned income tends to be spent on consumption, which is the principal driver of the economy,
Anonymous
Post 01/24/2012 11:52     Subject: Romney Paid 13.9% Tax Rate on $21.6 Million in Income.
the most interesting thing to me about Romney's tax returns are the number of offshore accounts. Switzerland, Bermuda, Caymans, Luxembourg. How much money, exactly, does this man have offshore?
Anonymous
Post 01/24/2012 11:41     Subject: Re:Romney Paid 13.9% Tax Rate on $21.6 Million in Income.
Faith, schmaith - Romney worships the dollar and the Mormon faith was the country club into which he was born. I don't believe that Romeny has any morality whatsoever when it comes to the common good. What's the point of being an American if we don't all contribute to the common good?
Anonymous
Post 01/24/2012 11:39     Subject: Re:Romney Paid 13.9% Tax Rate on $21.6 Million in Income.
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
This is more important to me. I would rather vote for someone who has some sort of faith than none at all like out current President.


Obama is:

a) a person who lacks any sort of faith;
b) a Muslim; or
c) a member of a racist anti-white church.

Please pick one and stick with it. It's tiring trying to keep up with your contradictions.


Mr. Steele, a. and c. are not mutually inconsistent.
jsteele
Post 01/24/2012 11:35     Subject: Re:Romney Paid 13.9% Tax Rate on $21.6 Million in Income.
Anonymous wrote:
This is more important to me. I would rather vote for someone who has some sort of faith than none at all like out current President.


Obama is:

a) a person who lacks any sort of faith;
b) a Muslim; or
c) a member of a racist anti-white church.

Please pick one and stick with it. It's tiring trying to keep up with your contradictions.
Anonymous
Post 01/24/2012 11:21     Subject: Re:Romney Paid 13.9% Tax Rate on $21.6 Million in Income.
He used the present tax code and it benefits him and you can't blame him for this. Rockefeller, Kohl, and all the other millionaires in the House, Senate, and White House use the same code. Congress is always for simplifying the tax code but the changes always help the very rich, both republican and democrat.
Anonymous
Post 01/24/2012 11:12     Subject: Re:Romney Paid 13.9% Tax Rate on $21.6 Million in Income.
Anonymous wrote:His people are saying that he is not getting any tax benefit from his investments in all of his off shore accounts in tax havens like Luxenburg and the Caymans, but then why is he investing in those places? He must be getting some benefit. I was surprised to see that he gave more money to his church than he paid in taxes. I've never met someone who was able to donate more than they pay in taxes.


This is more important to me. I would rather vote for someone who has some sort of faith than none at all like out current President.
Anonymous
Post 01/24/2012 11:11     Subject: Romney Paid 13.9% Tax Rate on $21.6 Million in Income.
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Who cares, really?


I think you are going to find out that a lot of people care. Romney just became the poster child for tax unfairness.


My guess is you are overestimating the impact this will have, Mr. Steele. Anyone whose vote is going to be decided on this issue was not particularly likely to be voting Republican anyway. We shall see, though.
Anonymous
Post 01/24/2012 11:11     Subject: Romney Paid 13.9% Tax Rate on $21.6 Million in Income.
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:The "Buffet Rule" is the idea that billionaires should not pay a lower tax rate than their secretaries. The "Romney Rule" apparently is that billionaires who pay a tax rate of 13.9% on $21.6 million in income should maintain Swiss and Cayman Island bank accounts and run for president on a platform that would lower taxes on people like himself while raising them on lower income earners.

Remember earlier discussions on DCUM when several posters assured us that the Buffet Rule was unnecessary because the wealthy actually do pay their fair share? Mitt Romney is a walking contradiction to that suggestion. An added bonus of Romney's tax release is that we have learned that this year he closed his Swiss and Cayman Island accounts because he is "running for President for Pete's sake".



http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/20/business/questioning-the-dogma-of-lower-taxes-on-capital-gains.html?pagewanted=all

Favorable low capital gains on primary residence only plus 1 second home would make sense to me. Add to that a higher cap.


PP here. 400 highest adjusted gross incomes in US and rates. Is Mitt low for this group or not in it?

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=566&Topic2id=48
Anonymous
Post 01/24/2012 11:09     Subject: Romney Paid 13.9% Tax Rate on $21.6 Million in Income.
Anonymous wrote:The funny thing about this is that Democrats wants to now raise the capital gains rate but they've shown that the government is incapable of allocating those resources in an efficient manner. ROmney was, but if you give all that money to the people living in squalor in Potomac Gardens I bet they'll end up in the same situation. You can try and try but you can't tax your way to some sense of equality. But hey you can try, and you can be envious of the wealthy and the successful. Stupid government workers.

Wow! So you are in favor of the government allocating resources. You are a socialist.


??
Anonymous
Post 01/24/2012 11:05     Subject: Romney Paid 13.9% Tax Rate on $21.6 Million in Income.
The funny thing about this is that Democrats wants to now raise the capital gains rate but they've shown that the government is incapable of allocating those resources in an efficient manner. ROmney was, but if you give all that money to the people living in squalor in Potomac Gardens I bet they'll end up in the same situation. You can try and try but you can't tax your way to some sense of equality. But hey you can try, and you can be envious of the wealthy and the successful. Stupid government workers.

Wow! So you are in favor of the government allocating resources. You are a socialist.
jsteele
Post 01/24/2012 10:55     Subject: Romney Paid 13.9% Tax Rate on $21.6 Million in Income.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Liberal hate of successful people. The food stamp president.


What a stupid statement! In fact, Democratics tend to win the rich vote. The criticism of Rommey is not that he is successful, but that he is paying taxes at a lower rate that those who do real work. Remember, Reagan eliminates the capital gains tax, and many Republicans support a flat tax of 1-2 marginal rates (all above what Rommey paid).


There's a big difference between Romney as the poster boy for tax unfairness, as Jeff pointed out, and criticism of Romney that he is not paying more taxes. The first is a legitimate issue, and could turn into a very helpful storyline for democrats. The second is, in my view, misplaced. I've not read anything to suggest that Romney has broken any laws (and I'd be shocked if that was the case). Why should Romney the man, or candidate, be criticized for complying with the tax laws currently in effect?


Yes, I agree. Don't hate the player, hate the game. The issue is not that Romney cheated or did anything against the rules regarding his taxes. He didn't. The issue is the unfairness of the tax system. Romney is a visible representative of that unfairness. Moreover, not only supports that system, but wants to make it even more unfair.

Anonymous
Post 01/24/2012 10:49     Subject: Romney Paid 13.9% Tax Rate on $21.6 Million in Income.
The funny thing about this is that Democrats wants to now raise the capital gains rate but they've shown that the government is incapable of allocating those resources in an efficient manner. ROmney was, but if you give all that money to the people living in squalor in Potomac Gardens I bet they'll end up in the same situation. You can try and try but you can't tax your way to some sense of equality. But hey you can try, and you can be envious of the wealthy and the successful. Stupid government workers.
Anonymous
Post 01/24/2012 10:30     Subject: Romney Paid 13.9% Tax Rate on $21.6 Million in Income.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Liberal hate of successful people. The food stamp president.


What a stupid statement! In fact, Democratics tend to win the rich vote. The criticism of Rommey is not that he is successful, but that he is paying taxes at a lower rate that those who do real work. Remember, Reagan eliminates the capital gains tax, and many Republicans support a flat tax of 1-2 marginal rates (all above what Rommey paid).


There's a big difference between Romney as the poster boy for tax unfairness, as Jeff pointed out, and criticism of Romney that he is not paying more taxes. The first is a legitimate issue, and could turn into a very helpful storyline for democrats. The second is, in my view, misplaced. I've not read anything to suggest that Romney has broken any laws (and I'd be shocked if that was the case). Why should Romney the man, or candidate, be criticized for complying with the tax laws currently in effect?