Anonymous wrote:I'm 9:46. Talk to any teacher who has taught what is now called AAP for at least the last 6 years and they will tell you the curriculum they have now is not the same curriculum they had a few years ago.

True. The Virginia SOLs have changed and the FCPS Program of Studies (POS) has changed for all students in turn. (13:21 stated it particularly well.)

Anonymous wrote:If a child hasn't been exposed to something prior to 3rd grade, they should not be expected to magically acquire that skill between second and third grade. At the very least, if they don't have those skills or that history, there should be something in place to help them make that transition.

This is observed for both gen ed 3rd grade and AAP 3rd grade. The transition to "welcome to the SOLs" is tough for many 3rd graders, and not just AAP 3rd graders.

PP Here: I should say my experience is based on one school. In that school, it seems that all of the AAP kids are doing fine. Is your child in a LLIV or Center? I wonder if the expectations of the teacher are not good.

13:07: I have seen the difference between AAP and ten ed teaching. AAP is not accelerated, except for math. Rather, AAP goes in to more depth on a specific subject area. I have compared work from two kids, one in AAP and one in Gen Ed.

The curriculum is geared to what is required in the SOL tests. The school is basically required to have 100% of the kids pass it in a few years. So, they teach to that. And AAP and gen ed take the same SOL's.

I'm 9:46. Talk to any teacher who has taught what is now called AAP for at least the last 6 years and they will tell you the curriculum they have now is not the same curriculum they had a few years ago. The emphasis has shifted tremendously towards accelerated academics and away from a wide range of creative and critical thinking programs and activities. Yet the path to get into AAP has not changed to reflect that new focus.

I'm not saying the entrance exams should all be about knowledge, but they should include a hard look at the skills that child has acquired up to that point. If a child is struggling with a subject or a skill, that should be taken into account during the admission process. If a child hasn't been exposed to something prior to 3rd grade, they should not be expected to magically acquire that skill between second and third grade. At the very least, if they don't have those skills or that history, there should be something in place to help them make that transition.

Anonymous wrote:My understanding is the change from gt to aap was mostly a name change: they wanted to make it clear that these are academically gifted/advanced.

Exactly.

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/pdfs/aapac/gtac/GTAC2006-07AnnualReport.pdf

Gifted and Talented Advisory Committee
Annual Report on Gifted and Talented Programs of the Fairfax County Public Schools
May 1, 2007

Changing the name of Gifted and Talented Programs

Background
As part of one of the three recommendations presented by GTAC to the School Board in May 2006, the Committee suggested developing a framework for creating and fostering a positive school climate in schools which currently have a GT Center. We recognized that administrators and teachers must promote respectful interactions between center and noncenter students. Finally, we recommended that schools should integrate GT students into the total school community through team building and improved communication, as well as provide parents a better understanding of the GT curriculum or Level IV service. The Committee recognizes and commends the ongoing efforts by the School Board and its staff to respond to these issues.

* * *

During the course of the GTAC discussions this year, the question was raised about the name of the program itself. We know that the State of Virginia requires Fairfax County Public Schools to provide gifted services, but it does not designate the name of those services. Several choices were discussed and, while some members did not support a change, the majority of the Committee membership approved of a name change from Gifted and Talented Services to Advanced Academic Programs. It was felt by the Committee that this name change emphasizes efforts to put a label on the service being offered and recognizes the academic nature of the program.

09:46: by your argument, the aap admittance criteria should be based on knowledge rather than ability.

The assumption in aap is very little remedial work. Level 4 aap is supposed to be in all subjects, not just one or two.

My understanding is the change from gt to aap was mostly a name change: they wanted to make it clear that these are academically gifted/advanced.

While it has been awhile, my parents pulled me out of the gifted program. I didn't want to be in it. I was an underachiever, not very motivated to work. I have a very Type B laid back personality and I didn't care about grades. I went to (not high performing) public school for the rest of my education. I have done just fine in life. Ended up with a PhD and working in academia believe it or not! Still not a real high achiever but that hasn't kept me from being successful.

20:46 Same thing happened in our child's class but it was obvious that the school had "tracked" the kids into that class as this is still happening at said school - all these kids have done fine in AAP and are kids you would guess would be AAP material, so I don't think it's always a case of GBRS inflation by a teacher.

A few years ago they changed the entire program to be an accelerated academic program instead of a gifted and talented program. But they still screen kids using gifted and talented instruments. The time has come to change the screening methods and admit kids who meet the standards of the new model.

I am interested to learn more about this change in the entire program. The only change I am aware of is the change in the NAME to label the service instead of the child.

(former GTAC member)

I think this is much more widespread than parents with kids in AAP realize. We are seriously considering pulling our third grader from the program next year and his teacher has told me that we aren't the only parents thinking about that option.

I think that there is a real issue at work here that the county is not acknowledging or addressing. All of our kids take a series of tests that measure critical and creative thinking. All of the tools used to assess their abilities are about what they can achieve, not what they have already learned. And then they are thrown in this hyper-accelerated curriculum that expects them to come in with a set of skills and work habits that I don't think is realistic. Some rise to the occasion, but I think many of them don't.

And for those that don't, there is little to no support. When we got called into the classroom, we were told that the teacher cannot take the time to teach my son to study or to catch him up on his spelling and math (he's "just" at a 3rd grade level so he's behind). So our only choice was to get a tutor and work with him ourselves. If this was a regular classroom, I'd be fine with that. But they tested him, they assessed him and they said he belonged in THIS accelerated program. I actually challenged that way back then and I was assured that I wasn't understanding his potential. And now they are saying he isn't meeting their standards and it's my job to fix it on my own, because they can't take the time. And if that doesn't work, then he should just leave this program, because clearly he is just the wrong fit for the program they said was the right choice for him based on their assessments.

A few years ago they changed the entire program to be an accelerated academic program instead of a gifted and talented program. But they still screen kids using gifted and talented instruments. The time has come to change the screening methods and admit kids who meet the standards of the new model.

Anonymous wrote:Many kids in DS's class have been struggling since they started AAP this year (3rd). The teacher had to talk to the class b/c most of the kids weren't used to getting S and were upset. I agree most kids aren't uniformly gifted. Also I think there are 2 types at school. The really gifted and the high achievers. The high achievers have to study and work hard to get those grades and with more work and harder concepts to grasp quickly it becomes harder for them. As I thought, they took all the kids who were maybe top 5 in their class and put them together - and now some of those kids have to be at the bottom of the aap class.

[list]You are very wise maybe you should be on the screening pool. Or better yet the "should I push my child into AAP pool"

Anonymous wrote:Many kids in DS's class have been struggling since they started AAP this year (3rd). The teacher had to talk to the class b/c most of the kids weren't used to getting S and were upset. I agree most kids aren't uniformly gifted. Also I think there are 2 types at school. The really gifted and the high achievers. The high achievers have to study and work hard to get those grades and with more work and harder concepts to grasp quickly it becomes harder for them. As I thought, they took all the kids who were maybe top 5 in their class and put them together - and now some of those kids have to be at the bottom of the aap class.

16 of the 26 students in my DS's second grade class are now in AAP (3rd Grade Local Level 4). Far fewer students made it from other 2nd grade classes. I think our teacher inflated the GBRS's.

Anonymous wrote:Many kids in DS's class have been struggling since they started AAP this year (3rd). The teacher had to talk to the class b/c most of the kids weren't used to getting S and were upset. I agree most kids aren't uniformly gifted. Also I think there are 2 types at school. The really gifted and the high achievers. The high achievers have to study and work hard to get those grades and with more work and harder concepts to grasp quickly it becomes harder for them. As I thought, they took all the kids who were maybe top 5 in their class and put them together - and now some of those kids have to be at the bottom of the aap class.

16 of the 26 students in my DS's second grade class are now in AAP (3rd Grade Locsl Level 4). Far fewer students mafe it from other 2nd grade classes. I think our teacher inflated the GBRS's.

Anonymous wrote:I'd advise kicking back in less rigorous classes while still getting easy As. Then onto a state school on full scholarship and an easy major. Encourage her to spend her down time, which she should have a lot of, pursuing something she likes and sees a need for and to start her own business and build it up. I am 100% serious about this.

This message was brought to you by Bill Gates.

My DS is the same way, OP. He's a brilliant kid....won spelling B's for his class one year, won geography B for his class the following year. Was reader of the year in 5th grade. And he's in Spectrum in middle school. BUT, he has zero drive to work at it at home. He becomes emotionally unhinged with any homework or practicing that needs to happen outside of school hours.

We've toyed with the idea of making him quit band since it is so tough to even get him to practice. The only thing we pushed him in is Math....he's in advanced math, and not doing well now. I've learned my lesson.

Kids have to have it within themselves to do well in school. they cannot piggyback off of your excitement or expectations for them to do well in school.