Anonymous wrote:I was raised Christian, and have always liked Oh Come, Oh Come Emmanuel, perhaps because of its dirge-like qualities. It's not very cheery.

But, if my kid were singing it at a PUBLIC SCHOOL, I would be livid. It is absolutely fundamentally religious to its core, and singing about awaiting your savior does not belong in a public school.

it is art. You don't think some books or poems don't have messages that are religious, or anti-religious or anything else you might not like? Do you want to censor music now?

I was raised Christian, and have always liked Oh Come, Oh Come Emmanuel, perhaps because of its dirge-like qualities. It's not very cheery.

But, if my kid were singing it at a PUBLIC SCHOOL, I would be livid. It is absolutely fundamentally religious to its core, and singing about awaiting your savior does not belong in a public school.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Other grades are singing jingle bells and little drummer boy.
Aren't these Christmas Carols?

Actually, I jingle bells was originally a Thanksgiving song.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingle_Bells

16:07.

You just got my curiosity going now. This is a statement from MENC, the Music Educators National Conference.

http://www.nafme.org/about/view/sacred-music-in-schools

I should mention, I was in an elementary school. If I were in a Middle or High School Choir Director, when so much of the great music is religious, I think it would be highly unavoidable to omit sacred music from the repertoire.

I always avoided sacred music, as I felt it would not be fair to the diverse student body I taught.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Other grades are singing jingle bells and little drummer boy.
Aren't these Christmas Carols?

I was with you OP until you mentioned you have a problem with Jingle Bells. Religious songs are one thing, but holiday songs? Come on! Ask a friend to remove the stick from your butt.

Quote of the week on DCUM.

Anonymous wrote:SUE THEM! SUE THEM!

it is a song, pick your battles. why act like a jerk and perpetuate stereotypes?

The anti-semitism always comes out on these threads. Every year like clockwork.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Other grades are singing jingle bells and little drummer boy.
Aren't these Christmas Carols?

Yes, OP, they are.

Any Hanukkah songs or songs from holidays celebrated by other cultures?

I attended a Catholic grade school. For our Christmas celebration, we sang the Hanukkah song - "Hanukkah, oh, Hanukkah, come, light the menorah Let's have a party, we'll all dance the hora . . . " I remember that vividly. And we also acknowledged Kwanzaa by decorating parts of the stage with items that represented this celebration.

It was the 70s where people were still in the "one, big happy" phase, however.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree it's inappropriate. I'm Jewish. If it were a private school I might not be annoyed because they can do as they wish, but in a public school-no way. What about the athiest and Muslim and Buddist and Hindu families among others? I would say something. I have no problem with my child doing Christmassy things at school as long as bible stuff isn't brought in. If I sent my child to a Catholic school or something I would totally accept it, but public schools cannot do this.

I'm an atheist and have no problem with religious songs. They are just songs. As a child I had no clue what they meant and when I did it didn't affect me since I didn't believe it anyway. Holiday songs are so beautiful. What would be the equivalent - teaching kids to sing songs in Hebrew?

While I think tolerance and equal time to Kwanza & Chanukkah is definitely needed, when you are a religious minority in a school is it realistic to expect everyone bend over backwards to make a few parents happy?

I do think it's realistic, and not bending over backwards, for a school to pick one of the many nice non-religious holiday songs.

I am a Catholic church children's choir director, and also taught public school music for 7 years. I think that in a public school context, singing religious songs is not appropriate, and I would feel it is likely illegal. For my choirs, in December, I would do a Winter Concert. We would on occasion do a Hanukkah or Christmas song, but mainly would stick to some more generic "Winter Music". When we did do Christmas, or Hanukkah songs, they would NEVER be overtly religious. The classroom general music books also had more generic holiday songs in them as well. O Come O Come Emmanuel is inappropriate. Obviously, my church choirs sing religious pieces. Currently, I teach at church based preschool. I am not allowed to do any songs that mention Santa. This is because many of our students, though they attend a church funded preschool, they are not Christian. Our director feels strongly that though we can clearly sing religious Christmas songs, so many students will not see "Santa" as part of their December, she does not want them to feel left out.

Anonymous wrote:I agree it's inappropriate. I'm Jewish. If it were a private school I might not be annoyed because they can do as they wish, but in a public school-no way. What about the athiest and Muslim and Buddist and Hindu families among others? I would say something. I have no problem with my child doing Christmassy things at school as long as bible stuff isn't brought in. If I sent my child to a Catholic school or something I would totally accept it, but public schools cannot do this.

I'm an atheist and have no problem with religious songs. They are just songs. As a child I had no clue what they meant and when I did it didn't affect me since I didn't believe it anyway. Holiday songs are so beautiful. What would be the equivalent - teaching kids to sing songs in Hebrew?

While I think tolerance and equal time to Kwanza & Chanukkah is definitely needed, when you are a religious minority in a school is it realistic to expect everyone bend over backwards to make a few parents happy?

NP here. Christian heritage, though not faithful. Personally love O Come, O Come Emmanuel, but certainly think of it as a more religious / church song.

But I am curious - did you mention jingle bells to point out the differences or are you somehow lumping those together? Because I don't see anything remotely religious about jingle bells.

SUE THEM! SUE THEM!

it is a song, pick your battles. why act like a jerk and perpetuate stereotypes?

Speaking as a Jew, one issue I have with some of the Christmas carols is the way they describe Jesus as King of the Jews, or, in the case of Come O Emanuel have lyrics like "from the depth of hell thy people save"-- to the extent that's referring to Jews it's not a lyric I am comfortable with.

I guess I just tend to think that schools, particularly at the elementary level, should stay away from religious music when there is plenty of nonreligious music (the dreidel song is not religious at all).

I agree it's inappropriate. I'm Jewish. If it were a private school I might not be annoyed because they can do as they wish, but in a public school-no way. What about the athiest and Muslim and Buddist and Hindu families among others? I would say something. I have no problem with my child doing Christmassy things at school as long as bible stuff isn't brought in. If I sent my child to a Catholic school or something I would totally accept it, but public schools cannot do this.

I would absolutely bring this up to the school administration now! This is not appropraite and may actually be violating the constitutional principles requiring public schools to remain strictly secular environments.

There are many seasonal songs that can be sung - and if it is done as a part of cultutal awareness and creating an inclusive environment - singing Christmas songs as well as other songs might be an approach that can be taken. But Oh Come of Come Emanuel is definitely Christian.

By the way - did the school recognize Halloween?