Anonymous
11/26/2011 16:49
Subject: Re:Skeletons in the Closet?
21:11 here.
Speaking for myself, I think many women would consider it a deal breaker because homosexuality is so stigmatized for men that for a man to cross that boundary suggests that he must have a BIG reason to do so. That might be bisexuality, but it might be a closeted gay man.
Also, men who have sex with men - it's a much riskier profile group (for lots of things including diseases) especially men who have sex with men but present as straight and don't tell anyone. You already have a sexual identity which is illicit and you are already practiced at lying to your female partner, maybe you even get some thrill from that. It's not a big leap to cheating. I would consider cheating with a man worse than cheating with a woman btw. A lot worse. I also think that I would also be nervous because we wouldn't expect a straight man to share a bed with a female friend once he's married, but a man who wants to have sex with men can do so without raising suspicion. I think there is just too much temptation. What about saunas or showers in the gym? Gay/bisexual men can always be looking and then if there's one crack in the relationship, one problem, one issue, they can run out and cheat. I think straight men (truly straight men) are less likely to cheat.
I also think gay culture is more promiscuous, more likely to have non monogamous relationships and accept illicit relationships. I think that while straight women can't expect to cut off sex and their husbands not cheat, gay male relationships don't have pregnancy, female orgasm difficulties, childbirth, birth control or periods, or any other hormonal problems that women go through and so can afford to be less respectful of physical difficulties which might result in reduced libido or sexual problems. But men know they can get sex any time from other men, that is different to a straight man who knows that male-female relationships are often more complicated and may be more likely to compromise in a marriage.
Also, I think that people who are less mainstream in their sexual preferences are probably the same in other ways. So maybe a bisexual husband is also hiding a foot fetish or cross dresses. I'm not saying that is always the case, just that I'd be concerned that once married, my husband would reveal all of these other things I now "have to do" for the health of my marriage which would be a sexual turn off to me. Adult babies, furries, extreme domination etc.
It's not that I don't believe that bisexual men don't exist or are closet gay, I just believe strongly that they are more likely to cheat.
So, I'm interested. If your wife had said "I think bisexuality is wrong", what would your response have been? Would you have disagreed?
Also, do you still look at gay porn and things? Just trying to see if this goes dormant or not?
Speaking for myself, I think many women would consider it a deal breaker because homosexuality is so stigmatized for men that for a man to cross that boundary suggests that he must have a BIG reason to do so. That might be bisexuality, but it might be a closeted gay man.
Also, men who have sex with men - it's a much riskier profile group (for lots of things including diseases) especially men who have sex with men but present as straight and don't tell anyone. You already have a sexual identity which is illicit and you are already practiced at lying to your female partner, maybe you even get some thrill from that. It's not a big leap to cheating. I would consider cheating with a man worse than cheating with a woman btw. A lot worse. I also think that I would also be nervous because we wouldn't expect a straight man to share a bed with a female friend once he's married, but a man who wants to have sex with men can do so without raising suspicion. I think there is just too much temptation. What about saunas or showers in the gym? Gay/bisexual men can always be looking and then if there's one crack in the relationship, one problem, one issue, they can run out and cheat. I think straight men (truly straight men) are less likely to cheat.
I also think gay culture is more promiscuous, more likely to have non monogamous relationships and accept illicit relationships. I think that while straight women can't expect to cut off sex and their husbands not cheat, gay male relationships don't have pregnancy, female orgasm difficulties, childbirth, birth control or periods, or any other hormonal problems that women go through and so can afford to be less respectful of physical difficulties which might result in reduced libido or sexual problems. But men know they can get sex any time from other men, that is different to a straight man who knows that male-female relationships are often more complicated and may be more likely to compromise in a marriage.
Also, I think that people who are less mainstream in their sexual preferences are probably the same in other ways. So maybe a bisexual husband is also hiding a foot fetish or cross dresses. I'm not saying that is always the case, just that I'd be concerned that once married, my husband would reveal all of these other things I now "have to do" for the health of my marriage which would be a sexual turn off to me. Adult babies, furries, extreme domination etc.
It's not that I don't believe that bisexual men don't exist or are closet gay, I just believe strongly that they are more likely to cheat.
So, I'm interested. If your wife had said "I think bisexuality is wrong", what would your response have been? Would you have disagreed?
Also, do you still look at gay porn and things? Just trying to see if this goes dormant or not?
Anonymous
11/26/2011 16:22
Subject: Skeletons in the Closet?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I am the DH who experimented with guys. First, there is such a thing as a bisexual man. For the life of me, I can never understand why women only think they can be bisexual. I believe in the Kinsey scale where orientation is often not definite. Second, in public I check out women but never men and have no desire to ever have an emotional relationship with a man. I am totally straight looking and acting.
The reality is that I enjoy sex more with a woman but a piece of me also liked getting together with men. I also believe in monogamy and therefore have no intention of being married and being on the "down low". Do I ever get the urge to be with a guy? Yes but I also fantasize about other women, threesomes, and wife swapping but I don't intend to do any of these things. Don't we all have fantasies but know the reality would not be as expected?
I would never tell my wife, even on my deathbed, because just like she had a life before me so did I. What counts is what we are like now and moving forward.
I agree with you on most of this. I have no problem at all understanding bisexuality and have those tendencies myself. What I don't understand is marrying someone who doesn't get it. I also don't understand why bisexuality would be a deal breaker for so many women.
Sorry, my previous post got screwed up. What happened was, I met her, fell in love, and looked at the experiences with men as something in my past. I did not want to lose her.
Let's consider a parallel situation. Suppose my wife came up to me and said, "honey, I slept with women in college and was also an escort and just wanted to finally get it off my chest". I would still love her and be very happy that she considered our relationship strong enough to reveal this. In fact, it would probably strengthen our marriage. But it is so opposite for men. Women experimenting is considered open minded, avante garde, adventurous.
But men together are labeled as gay because supposedly there is no such thing as a bi man, etc. I really wish I could sit with her and say, "I experimented with guys back in the day but love you very much and never want to have sex with any other person for the rest of my life". But she has gay friends and would absolutely be devastated and immediately think I am gay and probably still want to be with men. It's the sad truth but again, I am monogamous and even if somehow she found out I had done this, there is no reason for her to have this fear.
Well, we all have to make compromises. I would want my husband to tell me but then again, I understand why you won't
Anonymous
11/26/2011 16:20
Subject: Skeletons in the Closet?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I am the DH who experimented with guys. First, there is such a thing as a bisexual man. For the life of me, I can never understand why women only think they can be bisexual. I believe in the Kinsey scale where orientation is often not definite. Second, in public I check out women but never men and have no desire to ever have an emotional relationship with a man. I am totally straight looking and acting.
The reality is that I enjoy sex more with a woman but a piece of me also liked getting together with men. I also believe in monogamy and therefore have no intention of being married and being on the "down low". Do I ever get the urge to be with a guy? Yes but I also fantasize about other women, threesomes, and wife swapping but I don't intend to do any of these things. Don't we all have fantasies but know the reality would not be as expected?
I would never tell my wife, even on my deathbed, because just like she had a life before me so did I. What counts is what we are like now and moving forward.
I agree with you on most of this. I have no problem at all understanding bisexuality and have those tendencies myself. What I don't understand is marrying someone who doesn't get it. I also don't understand why bisexuality would be a deal breaker for so many women.
Sorry, my previous post got screwed up. What happened was, I met her, fell in love, and looked at the experiences with men as something in my past. I did not want to lose her.
Let's consider a parallel situation. Suppose my wife came up to me and said, "honey, I slept with women in college and was also an escort and just wanted to finally get it off my chest". I would still love her and be very happy that she considered our relationship strong enough to reveal this. In fact, it would probably strengthen our marriage. But it is so opposite for men. Women experimenting is considered open minded, avante garde, adventurous.
But men together are labeled as gay because supposedly there is no such thing as a bi man, etc. I really wish I could sit with her and say, "I experimented with guys back in the day but love you very much and never want to have sex with any other person for the rest of my life". But she has gay friends and would absolutely be devastated and immediately think I am gay and probably still want to be with men. It's the sad truth but again, I am monogamous and even if somehow she found out I had done this, there is no reason for her to have this fear.
Anonymous
11/26/2011 16:11
Subject: Skeletons in the Closet?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I am the DH who experimented with guys. First, there is such a thing as a bisexual man. For the life of me, I can never understand why women only think they can be bisexual. I believe in the Kinsey scale where orientation is often not definite. Second, in public I check out women but never men and have no desire to ever have an emotional relationship with a man. I am totally straight looking and acting.
The reality is that I enjoy sex more with a woman but a piece of me also liked getting together with men. I also believe in monogamy and therefore have no intention of being married and being on the "down low". Do I ever get the urge to be with a guy? Yes but I also fantasize about other women, threesomes, and wife swapping but I don't intend to do any of these things. Don't we all have fantasies but know the reality would not be as expected?
I would never tell my wife, even on my deathbed, because just like she had a life before me so did I. What counts is what we are like now and moving forward.
Fell in love with her but looked at this as part of my past and something that would upset someone I started caring about. Should I have risked losing the best woman I ever met?
Let me give you a parallel argument. Suppose my wife came forward and said, "honey I have been with other women and also was an escort in college". I would still love her and actually respect her more for coming forward and trusting our relationship enough to disclose this. But again, like someone remarked, most women are not as tolerant in this department. Women with women is considered "exploring" while men with men is gay, disgusting, etc. You hear the phrase lesbian until graduation but never gay until graduation.
I agree with you on most of this. I have no problem at all understanding bisexuality and have those tendencies myself. What I don't understand is marrying someone who doesn't get it. I also don't understand why bisexuality would be a deal breaker for so many women.
Anonymous
11/26/2011 14:17
Subject: Skeletons in the Closet?
Monogamy and truthfulness in a marriage it what is important to me. If my spouse hid something that happened before we were married, that isn't a dealbreaker. I may be hurt or think it is important for me to know, but it didn't happen within the marriage so as long as they have been honest and faithful in the marriage, then I can live with it.
If I found out about an affair during the marriage that had been lied about - over and out. Not because of the affair as much as the lying. Finding out your marriage has been a sham and your spouse has been sleeping with others and lying about it and acting like they are committed and loving when they really aren't - the dishonesty and willing to live a lie is a bigger betrayal and character flaw to me than an affair.
If I found out about an affair during the marriage that had been lied about - over and out. Not because of the affair as much as the lying. Finding out your marriage has been a sham and your spouse has been sleeping with others and lying about it and acting like they are committed and loving when they really aren't - the dishonesty and willing to live a lie is a bigger betrayal and character flaw to me than an affair.
Anonymous
11/26/2011 14:01
Subject: Skeletons in the Closet?
Anonymous wrote:I am the DH who experimented with guys. First, there is such a thing as a bisexual man. For the life of me, I can never understand why women only think they can be bisexual. I believe in the Kinsey scale where orientation is often not definite. Second, in public I check out women but never men and have no desire to ever have an emotional relationship with a man. I am totally straight looking and acting.
The reality is that I enjoy sex more with a woman but a piece of me also liked getting together with men. I also believe in monogamy and therefore have no intention of being married and being on the "down low". Do I ever get the urge to be with a guy? Yes but I also fantasize about other women, threesomes, and wife swapping but I don't intend to do any of these things. Don't we all have fantasies but know the reality would not be as expected?
I would never tell my wife, even on my deathbed, because just like she had a life before me so did I. What counts is what we are like now and moving forward.
I agree with you on most of this. I have no problem at all understanding bisexuality and have those tendencies myself. What I don't understand is marrying someone who doesn't get it. I also don't understand why bisexuality would be a deal breaker for so many women.
Anonymous
11/26/2011 13:59
Subject: Skeletons in the Closet?
Anonymous wrote:I am the DH who experimented with guys. First, there is such a thing as a bisexual man. For the life of me, I can never understand why women only think they can be bisexual. I believe in the Kinsey scale where orientation is often not definite. Second, in public I check out women but never men and have no desire to ever have an emotional relationship with a man. I am totally straight looking and acting.
The reality is that I enjoy sex more with a woman but a piece of me also liked getting together with men. I also believe in monogamy and therefore have no intention of being married and being on the "down low". Do I ever get the urge to be with a guy? Yes but I also fantasize about other women, threesomes, and wife swapping but I don't intend to do any of these things. Don't we all have fantasies but know the reality would not be as expected?
I would never tell my wife, even on my deathbed, because just like she had a life before me so did I. What counts is what we are like now and moving forward.
I agree with you on all of this but I would never want to marry a person who would not understand this as well.
Anonymous
11/26/2011 13:56
Subject: Re:Skeletons in the Closet?
Ok, 21:11 again. Just curious because all three things (affairs, bisexuality or depression) would be dealbreakers for me though your answers make a lot of sense. So last question: if your partner was openly against those things. Lets say, she thought it was religiously wrong to be bisexual, would you pretend to agree? Or would you disagree though not admitting?
Same with depression lady. Do you pretend to know about depression or if DH said "depressed people are lazy and need to pull themselves together", would you silently be resentful though outwardly agreeing?
Sorry, just interested.
Same with depression lady. Do you pretend to know about depression or if DH said "depressed people are lazy and need to pull themselves together", would you silently be resentful though outwardly agreeing?
Sorry, just interested.
Anonymous
11/26/2011 13:46
Subject: Re:Skeletons in the Closet?
Anonymous wrote:
I don't think you can say what exactly another person needs to do to change their bad behavior. Humans are very complex, and engage in a number of different things in their own life which help them change or fix a problem. "Therapy" is not the only answer out there. Also, understanding that life is complicated doesn't mean that we excuse poor behavior. It just means we acknowledge it's not as simple as "get therapy" or "it's never the spouses fault" or whatever other truth you think you know. Also, all affairs are not a result of an addiction. Sometimes, yes, it is a matter of a very unique set of circumstances that are not likely to repeat.
I think it is in fact fair to say that it is impossible to change without self-examination. Therapy is a very common way to do that, so I recommend it frequently both here and IRL. But sure, there are other ways. It is just harder to change yourself without a sounding board. And presumably, if you are keeping your deep dark secret from everyone, you will not be confiding in your spouse.
And what makes you think I don't understand that life is complicated? Duh, of course it is. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't strive to be the best person you can be. Life being complicated is not an excuse for having an affair, or cheating on your taxes, or perjuring yourself, or any number of other things that are simply wrong. Life being complicated doesn't negate the fact that some things are just wrong. And as for not repeating moral errors, sure, maybe people don't. But what if those circumstances do repeat themselves? Does that mean it is okay to cheat again? Sorry, I don't buy that.
Moreover, I did not say affairs were the result of addiction, although they can be. I merely compared them.
Finally, and gently, since I am not saying this to flame you: one cannot say "very unique." Unique cannot be modified. Sorry - it is just one of my pet grammar peeves to see it misused that way. Not that I am the grammar police at all; I make plenty of errors of my own, undoubtedly.
Anonymous
11/26/2011 13:04
Subject: Skeletons in the Closet?
Anonymous wrote:For the people who keep secret things they know would cause their partner to walk, two questions
1. If asked directly, would you lie?
2. What have you done to make sure it would never happen again (affairs, depression, sex with men)?
1. Will lie if completely certain he will not find out from elsewhere.
2. Some thinking. I do not believe that lives can be always whitewashed over and painted perfectly again. It is a perfectly rational response to become depressed over things that are depressing. Affairs that are for scratching sexual itches that a husband won't I would just hide better. People live with depressions and affairs.
Anonymous
11/26/2011 10:10
Subject: Skeletons in the Closet?
I am the DH who experimented with guys. First, there is such a thing as a bisexual man. For the life of me, I can never understand why women only think they can be bisexual. I believe in the Kinsey scale where orientation is often not definite. Second, in public I check out women but never men and have no desire to ever have an emotional relationship with a man. I am totally straight looking and acting.
The reality is that I enjoy sex more with a woman but a piece of me also liked getting together with men. I also believe in monogamy and therefore have no intention of being married and being on the "down low". Do I ever get the urge to be with a guy? Yes but I also fantasize about other women, threesomes, and wife swapping but I don't intend to do any of these things. Don't we all have fantasies but know the reality would not be as expected?
I would never tell my wife, even on my deathbed, because just like she had a life before me so did I. What counts is what we are like now and moving forward.
The reality is that I enjoy sex more with a woman but a piece of me also liked getting together with men. I also believe in monogamy and therefore have no intention of being married and being on the "down low". Do I ever get the urge to be with a guy? Yes but I also fantasize about other women, threesomes, and wife swapping but I don't intend to do any of these things. Don't we all have fantasies but know the reality would not be as expected?
I would never tell my wife, even on my deathbed, because just like she had a life before me so did I. What counts is what we are like now and moving forward.
Anonymous
11/26/2011 09:14
Subject: Re:Skeletons in the Closet?
21:11 here again.
Very interested in the answer for the bisexual guy and the depressed woman. Affairs are an act of will but can someone really hide being attracted to men? Do you still lust after men? Flirt with them? And the depressed woman... are you seeing a doctor or just assuming nothing will happen?
Very interested in the answer for the bisexual guy and the depressed woman. Affairs are an act of will but can someone really hide being attracted to men? Do you still lust after men? Flirt with them? And the depressed woman... are you seeing a doctor or just assuming nothing will happen?
Anonymous
11/26/2011 09:01
Subject: Skeletons in the Closet?
Anonymous wrote:My skeleton is that I am a DH who has experimented with guys. For obvious reasons, she would freak.
You are right. If DH were to tell me this I would end the marriage because I would think he is gay and suppressing his true orientation because of social pressures and a wish to have children. Would not leave tomorrow but would within three years. I just don't believe guys can truly be bisexual.
Anonymous
11/26/2011 08:01
Subject: Re:Skeletons in the Closet?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I wonder if you are the same poster who writes all the sanctimonious responses on all these types of threads. OP, and other posters, ignore this person.
Sure. There is only one person who disapproves of affairs.
I am a DH who has written once before that while I do not approve of affairs and would be devastated if my wife had one and I found out, I also realize that people stray for a variety of reasons even if they are in love with their spouse and have a satisfying sex life. Note, I do not condone them, just understand that a person having one is not automatically a bad person worthy of only contempt. Life is a little more complicated than that.
Actually, expressing the hope that the cheating poster got therapy is showing concern. Do you tell crack addicts that life is complicated so you don't judge them for using? Or do you suggest that they need help to deal with their addictions so that they can outgrow the behavior? You can't change bad behaviors without a little self-examination. And blaming your spouse for you having an affair is about as fas from self-examination as you can get.
I don't think you can say what exactly another person needs to do to change their bad behavior. Humans are very complex, and engage in a number of different things in their own life which help them change or fix a problem. "Therapy" is not the only answer out there. Also, understanding that life is complicated doesn't mean that we excuse poor behavior. It just means we acknowledge it's not as simple as "get therapy" or "it's never the spouses fault" or whatever other truth you think you know. Also, all affairs are not a result of an addiction. Sometimes, yes, it is a matter of a very unique set of circumstances that are not likely to repeat.
Anonymous
11/25/2011 21:46
Subject: Re:Skeletons in the Closet?
To 21:11:
1. I would lie.
2. I stopped drinking; focused on my marriage, started volunteering, started exercising more -- am a different person than I was and think it's ok for the skeletons to remain in the closet.
1. I would lie.
2. I stopped drinking; focused on my marriage, started volunteering, started exercising more -- am a different person than I was and think it's ok for the skeletons to remain in the closet.