It is good that you went to couples counseling. Your dh should have some individual counseling. You will never get the response you are hoping or the exact apology you want. Forgiveness is for you and your husband, not them. Sometimes distance is the only answer. Alcoholism affects entire families and is rarely talked about. Sending you and your family warm holiday wishes!

Anonymous wrote:OP, the problem with your post is that people don't go to holiday get-togethers thinking "I am going to start a drama!" They react in the moment to what they feel is a provocation. They don't plan to be difficult and they don't think they are being difficult. In fact, they perceive others as difficult.

There is such a thing as a group dynamic, and perhaps your family needs to work on it. Singling out people is not helpful and neither is playing the blame game.

Really? They don't think this? Maybe not in your family.

OP, the problem with your post is that people don't go to holiday get-togethers thinking "I am going to start a drama!" They react in the moment to what they feel is a provocation. They don't plan to be difficult and they don't think they are being difficult. In fact, they perceive others as difficult.

There is such a thing as a group dynamic, and perhaps your family needs to work on it. Singling out people is not helpful and neither is playing the blame game.

Our family is full of dynamics. I'd love to see some of your comment regarding a situation I posted earlier under another section. http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/0/201511.page#1955482

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here forgot to mention to 21:36..It was the mother who was the alcoholic and the father was out of the picture-left and remarried. He was happy to keep a low profile until we had kids and then suddenly his expectations changed and he has yet to even show empathy for what he left my husband to deal with or even to say he wished he could have been there for him and his other children.

The truth is he won't ever get that apology from either parent. My DH also has an alcoholic mother, but his father was there when he could be. My DH needs to be in therapy to deal with his issues (but also has trouble staying in therapy). Closure won't come from an apology, it has to come from within. Continuing to cut out his father from his life is actually continuing to feel pain from the past rather than healing. If his Father is a good grandfather (rather a better Grandfather than Father) why not allow him to be in your life? Why allow the drama to continue by giving him the silent treatment? Forgiving or at least moving on is the adult thing to do.

This is helpful. Thank you. Our situation is a little different with the father because he has children and grandchildren with the stepmom and I won't go into to all that goes along with that, but I think you are correct that the apology will likely never come. "Good grandfather" are not words I'd use to describe him, but I wouldn't say "bad grandfather" either. We have not cut him off either because at least he was not abusive or abusive like the mom. Our kids are a bit frightened of him due to some things that he did a while back. Luckily he is pretty much occupied by his other grandchildren. It's more stressful for our children because they are the second class citizens and have to hear about how the other grandchildren walk on water and all the gifts and trips the grandfather indulges the others with, but we just try to figure it all out. With the mom it's mostly nasty with some lulls where you wouldn't believe all the other stuff went down. The more you need a break from her, the more needy she gets and the more she pursues and insults and then the dynamics get messy as she tries to drag others in.

It's complicated. Thank you to those who have some insight into what this is like. We did pursue couples therapy at one point and the therapist felt these dynamics were not healthy, though typical of families coping with an alcohaulism and sometimes people need to take some distance to reevaluate. The problem is when you need a break and people go ballistic on you. She felt that there was some personality disorder stuff going on with the mom and that the siblings who joined the drama were just conflicted and themselves very injured by all the went on growing up. I think we just concluded it is what it is and felt there was nothing more the therapist could offer or we could not afford it anymore. We are happy except for when the holidays stir this up. Regardless of the drama, we are happier distancing then we have ever been giving in.

Wishing everyone a happy and peaceful thanksgiving with the people you love who's company you enjoy.

Anonymous wrote:Silent treatment assholes are the worst. Get over your petty crap so that people can work out logistics of living. Let go of your invisible sense of power. Swallow your pride and grow up, indeed. Stop acting like toddlers who think that if the game isn't played their way, nobody plays! Life is too short for your silent "test of wills".

This is disturbing. If someone doesn't want to be called an "asshole" and a baby by you, leave them alone. You cannot force people to love you by insulting them. Let me guess, once again some family turned you down for Thanksgiving because they don't want to subject their families to your hostility. People have a right to not want to spend time with you and your hurtful ways. Please for the sake of your own family get some help. You have no idea how much you scar those around you with your tirades. People have the right to just say "no" to you whether you are a "friend" or a "family member" and if you cannot respect that then you need to learn about boundaries. If someone cannot take another second if your lashing out leave them be. Go vent to your plants or talk it through with your cats and therapist.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UGH please. Toxic people are the ones that keep up 'silent treatment' to each other essentially ripping a family in two.

DO YOU have any idea how difficult it is to constantly have to worry about family events because TWO selfish people can't make nice for even one family event per year?

GET OVER YOURSELF. GROW UP.

Let me guess...you are one who starts dramas and doesn't take a hint when people decline your invitations. People do "silent treatment" because they don't want to deal with you and your drama. They refuse to give in to your temper tantrums.

NOPE

Have to deal with family drama of two people not speaking. They've ruined several events including our wedding because they can't make nice and at least won't do it ahead of events.

They have NO IDEA how much of a burden it is on the rest of us and how CHILDISH we think they are.

Like I said, GROW UP. You don't have to talk to the person, but splitting up the family by refusing to attend events with certain people CREATES drama.

Perhaps if you listened to people instead of getting lost in your narcissism, you would understand why they don't want to spend time with you. Have you read any of OPs posts. It is sick that you are posting this all when we are talking about an abusive. I hope you treat your husband and children with more dignity than you treat random people in cyberspace. Some people cannot seem to accept that abuse should not be hidden under the rug to fulfill your own agenda.

Anonymous wrote: Do you realize the effect you have on people? Do you understand that the stress of this bullshit can affect people's healthy? Is the need for control that strong? Do you think you can force people to adore you even if you are nasty and gossipy? If a family has distanced themselves from you why keep pursuing and abusing over and over? Does it give you a high to harass people?

My family for the most part doesn't do this sht so it's hard for me to understand. I have no interest in pursuing people who don't want to be with me so I can't understand why people would keep it up. I also cannot imagine being emotionally abusive toward anyone, even someone I don't like. If I don't like you, I just don't spend time with you, but I don't wish to make anyone miserable. Do some people really enjoy making others miserable?

Even worse, why on earth do some family members try to intervene to re-connect two parties knowing the nastiness that goes on. Is it important to you that family stick together even if someone is verbally abusive?

Ah yes joy of in-laws and the holidays.

Hey! We must have the same SIL! You have my condolences.

Same here PP, same here. . .the worse part is, this person lives a few blocks from me.

Anonymous wrote:Silent treatment assholes are the worst. Get over your petty crap so that people can work out logistics of living. Let go of your invisible sense of power. Swallow your pride and grow up, indeed. Stop acting like toddlers who think that if the game isn't played their way, nobody plays! Life is too short for your silent "test of wills".

wow....this statement really resonates with me due to a situation I am currently facing. The passive-aggresive silent treatment crap is so damn childish. I hate knowing that other family members are uncomfortable and on edge because of the situation. So unfair to them. I do my best to rise above the one-sided nonsense. What can I really do if someone won't speak to me besides just be as polite as I can? I've attempted to address the person's issues with me but apparently not to their satisifaction.

Accept me for who I am, for the love of god.....I accept you for you!!!!

Anonymous wrote:OP here forgot to mention to 21:36..It was the mother who was the alcoholic and the father was out of the picture-left and remarried. He was happy to keep a low profile until we had kids and then suddenly his expectations changed and he has yet to even show empathy for what he left my husband to deal with or even to say he wished he could have been there for him and his other children.

The truth is he won't ever get that apology from either parent. My DH also has an alcoholic mother, but his father was there when he could be. My DH needs to be in therapy to deal with his issues (but also has trouble staying in therapy). Closure won't come from an apology, it has to come from within. Continuing to cut out his father from his life is actually continuing to feel pain from the past rather than healing. If his Father is a good grandfather (rather a better Grandfather than Father) why not allow him to be in your life? Why allow the drama to continue by giving him the silent treatment? Forgiving or at least moving on is the adult thing to do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UGH please. Toxic people are the ones that keep up 'silent treatment' to each other essentially ripping a family in two.

DO YOU have any idea how difficult it is to constantly have to worry about family events because TWO selfish people can't make nice for even one family event per year?

GET OVER YOURSELF. GROW UP.

Let me guess...you are one who starts dramas and doesn't take a hint when people decline your invitations. People do "silent treatment" because they don't want to deal with you and your drama. They refuse to give in to your temper tantrums.

NOPE

Have to deal with family drama of two people not speaking. They've ruined several events including our wedding because they can't make nice and at least won't do it ahead of events.

They have NO IDEA how much of a burden it is on the rest of us and how CHILDISH we think they are.

Like I said, GROW UP. You don't have to talk to the person, but splitting up the family by refusing to attend events with certain people CREATES drama.