15:44 She's probably paying him support! Unless he got a good job.

Anonymous wrote:OP - from your last post it is really really obvious that the affair is not the big issue here at all. There are clearly some long-standing issues here. It is NOT your fault that he had an affair, but you will need to step up to the plate and work through why you have both contributed to the dynamic that you have in order to get trough this. It sounds like you're both digging in your heels.

I agree with this. While obviously he is responsible for his own actions and it DOES NOT give him a right to have an affair, do you think you harbored resentment towards him before this happened?

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP,

I was in a similar situation ... found out he had been cheating on me; am the bread winner; have twin toddlers where I did most of the heavy lifting (because he "worked" from 7 AM to 7 PM) I confronted him 5 days after I found out and he's been out of the house ever since. I could have filed for an immediate divorce but chose to go the separation route because it's cheaper. It will be final in Feb 2012. I didn't bother with counseling for the both of us (except for myself). What he did was egregious and unforgivable.

When it comes to my kids, we've worked out visitation and child support. I don't say anything bad about him (being the child of divorced parents has really guided my actions for the better in that arena) Part of what solidified my decision to divorce him was this ... there's no way I could ever completely trust him. I'd always second guess him and check up on him. That's not a relationship I want to model for my children.

Honestly, a lot of things are easier without him around. I make the decisions - no discussion required. If something doesn't get done, I know it was me that didn't do it. It's a hell of a lot of work though - but I can afford to get sitters when I need them (my sitter service is a godsend).

I'd be happy to talk to you more about the experience and give you my perspective... feel free to contact me at encoreyetagain@gmail.com.

If you're the breadwinner, why is ex dh paying child support?

OP, what expensive tastes does your husband have? I ask because there are tastes that take him away from the family, and there are tastes that don't. Does he say want a car that the kids can't ride in? Or does he want a camper or a beach house, something that you all or at least he and the kids could enjoy? You mention that he is involved and a good dad. That's priceless. It also sounds like you might be working too hard at the mom thing. Private schools, if it stresses you that much, use public. Speech therapy, speak well around the kids, they will get it figured out. Have them listen to shows where people speak in full sentences with correct grammar and correct behavior as in not interupting one another, things like that. The sitter, while you probably do have more experience then hubby, so what? He is a parent too. Sounds like you may be invalidating him due to his lack of experience. I'm an engineer and used that skill set with my husband when we discussed whether or not a home repair was needed. He felt it wasn't, I felt it was. I listened to him, then explained what would happen if we followed his plan and we decided that the repair was worth doing right because it would save us $$$ down the road. It isn't your husband's fault he has different training and skills then you do. As for the dog, sounds like you don't want him around. Still your husband is taking care of him. So your therapist is right. He's also right on a personal level, we all like t obe thanked and appreciated. As for staying up with a sick kid, most men suck at that. Does he help in other ways, getting up in the morning so you can sleep, making you a meal you like to show (get this) his appreciation? Does he hang out with the kids so you can recharge with a glass of wine and a book. And truthfully there's no point in him being up with a sick kid if he can't meet that child's needs with tenderness and love. Better to have him take the daytime shift.

OP,

11:18's divorce sounds ideal in that she has financial resources, as do you, and they agreed on visitation. What if your DH wants 50-50? Could you live with that? Even if it's two or three days a week, when the children hit the homework years, keeping on top of all gets crazy and often children of divorce do not do as well academically. Again, I'm not urging you to stay but I want you to appreciate what the challenges might involve so you can make a truly informed decision. Right now you are not in the marriage anyway. You're not only angry, you really seem to dislike and not respect your husband.

Hi OP,

I was in a similar situation ... found out he had been cheating on me; am the bread winner; have twin toddlers where I did most of the heavy lifting (because he "worked" from 7 AM to 7 PM) I confronted him 5 days after I found out and he's been out of the house ever since. I could have filed for an immediate divorce but chose to go the separation route because it's cheaper. It will be final in Feb 2012. I didn't bother with counseling for the both of us (except for myself). What he did was egregious and unforgivable.

When it comes to my kids, we've worked out visitation and child support. I don't say anything bad about him (being the child of divorced parents has really guided my actions for the better in that arena) Part of what solidified my decision to divorce him was this ... there's no way I could ever completely trust him. I'd always second guess him and check up on him. That's not a relationship I want to model for my children.

Honestly, a lot of things are easier without him around. I make the decisions - no discussion required. If something doesn't get done, I know it was me that didn't do it. It's a hell of a lot of work though - but I can afford to get sitters when I need them (my sitter service is a godsend).

I'd be happy to talk to you more about the experience and give you my perspective... feel free to contact me at encoreyetagain@gmail.com.

Anonymous wrote:
I hope you're not continuing to provide the expensive extras DH enjoys.

Granted, I'm just now at the tail end of my own divorce, so I know that my experience is coloring my response to you. But, my dear sister, please do not act as though it is upon you to navigate this whole thing. He has GOT to bring something to the process or it's just a huge waste of your energies.

I'd say, take a big step back. Stop "working on it" and let him know that it is his turn. Put things in place that incentivize action on his part---if only by removing some of the luxury of the status quo.

To provide a stereotype that resonates nonetheless: Men don't understand words, but action. Get a new therapist for yourself. Drop the couples work. Make beautiful plans for the children and yourself this holiday season. Allow DH to experience a bit of what life is going to be like unless he seriously rethinks his arrogant position.

You had me at "300%" sister.

I agree 100%! My first husband cheated, and said he wanted to work on the marriage, but I knew he had checked out mentally. After some time, I checked out, got a divorce, made a life for myself, and am now married to a wonderful man. Life is too short to spend time with someone who isn't 100% committed to the relationship and it sounds like, from what you wrote, he's not. You deserve a better man OP. If he can't mend the relationship, than neither can you.

OP - from your last post it is really really obvious that the affair is not the big issue here at all. There are clearly some long-standing issues here. It is NOT your fault that he had an affair, but you will need to step up to the plate and work through why you have both contributed to the dynamic that you have in order to get trough this. It sounds like you're both digging in your heels.

just curious OP--how much of this anger and resentment were you carrying around before the affair? Sounds like the issues have been there a looong time. Maybe your therapist isn't the right one, but focusing on the marriage (versus the affair) is probably the only way to figure out where the various issues lie and whether they are solveable (or if you want to solve them). In a way, it sounds like the affair was the last straw for you--but also has given your (repressed?) anger justification, its finally all coming out but you are being asked to put it aside at the same time. Feelings of incredible anger are normal for a betrayed spouse, but ultimately eats you up too if you can't get past it. Anger also serves as a protective force--as long as you are incredibly FUCKING pissed off, you protect yourself from being hurt again by remaining disappointed and separate.

I also wonder bout the power/control dynamic. What if you just let go of a lot of the decision making and 'action items' and left him do it (right or wrong)--and made him take responsibility for his fuck ups, too? For a long time in my (otherwise pretty decent) marriage, I carried the resentment of being the more "capable" one--and thus doing more work etc. It created a very poor dynamic-- i was angry at the burden, DH felt like I wa controlling over every little thing and we ended up on extreme opposite sides of the fence over so many issues (at times I thought he was just a stubborn fuck), in part because we were acting out these roles. We were both right and both wrong. I stepped back, and eventually DH stepped up (and began to recognize that some of my contributions were valid once he started doing stuff) and we're on a more even playing field now. I know your situation is a lot different, with more to covercome, but thought I'd throw that out there.

I also wonder if you might not want to see a therapist on your own for a while? maybe you can sort out your feelings in a different context?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need a new therapist, OP !

You need a new husband.

Ha, ha...well I don't actually want a new husband. But it would be fun to actually be the one to gets taken care of once in a while. Oddly I joked to my friends that maybe I'd be more inclined to put up with all of this if he made millions. Of course I know that wouldn't be the solution and I know that it makes no sense intellectually, especially since I pride myself on being a strong woman.

I don't know if I love him. I definitely did love him prior to this mess. But now I feel sort of sorry for him because he seems so pathetic to me. My kids ADORE him. So that is where my struggle lies. And he really seems to want to stay together and says he loves me, I just don't actually feel it. And I definitely don't see it in his actions (or lack there of). I wish I had a partner and instead I feel like I have 2 small children and am married to a teenager who is in a crazy power-struggle with me. Literally we don't see eye to eye on almost anything. For example, I lamented that once both of our kids are in school full time we won't need (and can't afford) our FT babysiiter (like in 2 years). And he thought we should tell her immediately! "Its only fair to her to give her as much advance warning as we can." I'm like...are you nuts? Why in the world would we do that? I mean, I'd give her at least a month and we love her so much that I'd totally get her set up in something else. But 2 years? And its not like I said a month and he said 3 months and we compromise on 2. I mean, we aren't even in the same ballpark to get to a point where we'd compromise. And then when I try to rationalize and, in as nonthreatening of a manner as possible, point out that I have a ton of experience in hiring/management/business and that's just not realistic for endless reasons, then he just gets defensive and throws back the crap our therapist tells us: "You're not me, I'm not you and we're both right." Which I'd agree with ...if you were my neighbor and we didn't need to make any decisions about our lives on a daily basis!

So doesn't that sound like a ton of fun? I mean, it gets so old very quickly when its like that day after day.

Anonymous wrote:You need a new therapist, OP !

You need a new husband.

OP,

Doing it all alone ... but won't he want to share custody? You will still have to deal and will have to pay him child support. And finance two households. I'm not suggesting you stay. But as a divorced mother I am suggesting that what you heard at the lawyer's office was just the tip of the iceberg. The realities of divorce are more complex than the legalities of divorce.

Anonymous wrote:OP here,
Everyone has really said some insightful and helpful things. And yes, I already saw the attorney the week I first found out about everything. So I definitely feel comfortable with knowing where I stand legally and financially.
And I also agree that our marriage therapist isn't working although he's regarded as one of the best in town. Quite frankly I feel like he's a bit sexist. For example, he thinks I should “thank him” and appreciate all he does for me…like feed and let out the dog in the morning. Um…the dog he picked out! Somehow that doesn’t feel like its “for me”, but obviously I’m the clueless one. I provide the bulk of the income and do all the heavy lifting in our family (plan retirement, savings plan & finances, organize schools, play dates, vacations, nanny, all household duties…I’m sure just like most of you) and he just basically shows up and is involved with the kids a ton, but none of the "difficult" tasks like taking them to the doctor when they are sick, staying up all night with them when they are throwing up, working with them with speech therapy exercises, blah, blah, blah. He’d much rather sit on the side lines and watch me do all the research, investigating, and learning about: private school, speech therapist, etc and then comment at the 11th hour that he’d like input and its usually the EXACT opposite of what my plan was and it’s based on nothing since he’s done nothing!
So with all the road blocks and feeling like I could actually do it all alone (since I am anyway), I’m left feeling like my husband is actually just dead weight, a financial drain, and seriously bringing me down. We argue and fight more times than not. And I honestly feel like I’m a doormat being the primary breadwinner and homemaker, supply the nice lifestyle, then you cheat on me and yet I’m supposed to forgive? It just doesn’t seem to add up. I took my vows seriously and I’m trying not to make a hasty decision. But I can’t stop feeling like he’s just a jerk and what the hell am I doing staying since he needs me far more than I need him.

Well, I think you just had a breakthrough you weren't having in your therapist office. Maybe you have some clarity now to make some decisions?

Questions:

1) Do you still love him?

2) What's the worst thing that could happen if you left and started a new life?

3) What's the best thing that could happen if you left and started a new life?

In other words, you clearly want to leave. What are you afraid of?

OP here,
Everyone has really said some insightful and helpful things. And yes, I already saw the attorney the week I first found out about everything. So I definitely feel comfortable with knowing where I stand legally and financially.
And I also agree that our marriage therapist isn't working although he's regarded as one of the best in town. Quite frankly I feel like he's a bit sexist. For example, he thinks I should “thank him” and appreciate all he does for me…like feed and let out the dog in the morning. Um…the dog he picked out! Somehow that doesn’t feel like its “for me”, but obviously I’m the clueless one. I provide the bulk of the income and do all the heavy lifting in our family (plan retirement, savings plan & finances, organize schools, play dates, vacations, nanny, all household duties…I’m sure just like most of you) and he just basically shows up and is involved with the kids a ton, but none of the "difficult" tasks like taking them to the doctor when they are sick, staying up all night with them when they are throwing up, working with them with speech therapy exercises, blah, blah, blah. He’d much rather sit on the side lines and watch me do all the research, investigating, and learning about: private school, speech therapist, etc and then comment at the 11th hour that he’d like input and its usually the EXACT opposite of what my plan was and it’s based on nothing since he’s done nothing!
So with all the road blocks and feeling like I could actually do it all alone (since I am anyway), I’m left feeling like my husband is actually just dead weight, a financial drain, and seriously bringing me down. We argue and fight more times than not. And I honestly feel like I’m a doormat being the primary breadwinner and homemaker, supply the nice lifestyle, then you cheat on me and yet I’m supposed to forgive? It just doesn’t seem to add up. I took my vows seriously and I’m trying not to make a hasty decision. But I can’t stop feeling like he’s just a jerk and what the hell am I doing staying since he needs me far more than I need him.