Anonymous wrote:

TheManWithAUsername wrote:Even assuming that Jackson and/or Allen regularly use racial slurs, I'm not sure "bigot" is the right word. A bigot would be someone who says all Jews are cheap or something.

Did Jackson's slur betray some racism toward Jews? I'd say probably. The only alternative is that he was being (clumsily) colorful like some comics are, particularly with archaic and/or sillier slurs.

But Allen? I have no reasonable doubt that he exhibited his racism. I don't know how else to judge it.

Flip it. If you saw a tape of Jackson speaking to a predominately black audience, then referring to a Jewish-looking man as "hymie over there," would you hesitate to condemn him?

Re the word, it may not be familiar to us, but it was to him - that was clarified when the story originally ran.

Is Jesse Jackson a comedian? I thought he was a serious person who ran for President of the United States? I would think that he should be held to a higher standard than a "clumsily colorful comedian" to paraphrase your remarks.

Should he have been held to a higher standard of care in his speech? Yes. I didn't say or suggest that he wasn't deserving of criticism.

Anonymous wrote:Do you really believe that Allen exhibited racism but Jackson didn't?

WTF is it with people's inability to read clear text? While saying you don't understand me, you've actually bolded the answer to your question in my earlier post. Look up the word "probably." You find that it has almost the opposite meaning of "not."

Anonymous wrote:I am certainly not a supporter of Allen, but I honestly don't see any difference in what Allen did in comparison to Jackson calling Jews "hymies" and referring to NYC as "hymie-town", which he did say to a black Washington Post reporter ( Milton Coleman) in 1984.

OK. I see them as very close as well - as is abundantly clear from my post, in which I say that his statement probably betrayed his racism.

Anonymous wrote:Jackson denied the remarks at first, then went on the offensive, accusing Jews of conspiring against him.

I didn't know that, and now I've read about it; thanks for the information. Crazy and racist, to be sure. Of course, that was after the statement, so it's completely separate from the question of whether his statement in itself exhibited racism.

TheManWithAUsername wrote:Even assuming that Jackson and/or Allen regularly use racial slurs, I'm not sure "bigot" is the right word. A bigot would be someone who says all Jews are cheap or something.

Did Jackson's slur betray some racism toward Jews? I'd say probably. The only alternative is that he was being (clumsily) colorful like some comics are, particularly with archaic and/or sillier slurs.

But Allen? I have no reasonable doubt that he exhibited his racism. I don't know how else to judge it.

Flip it. If you saw a tape of Jackson speaking to a predominately black audience, then referring to a Jewish-looking man as "hymie over there," would you hesitate to condemn him?

Re the word, it may not be familiar to us, but it was to him - that was clarified when the story originally ran.

Is Jesse Jackson a comedian? I thought he was a serious person who ran for President of the United States? I would think that he should be held to a higher standard than a "clumsily colorful comedian" to paraphrase your remarks. I am unsure of what your point is. Could you clarify? Do you really believe that Allen exhibited racism but Jackson didn't? I am certainly not a supporter of Allen, but I honestly don't see any difference in what Allen did in comparison to Jackson calling Jews "hymies" and referring to NYC as "hymie-town", which he did say to a black Washington Post reporter ( Milton Coleman) in 1984. Jackson denied the remarks at first, then went on the offensive, accusing Jews of conspiring against him. He was defended by Louis Farrakhan, who threatened Coleman. If Jesse Jackson is not a racist, I don't know who is.

Even assuming that Jackson and/or Allen regularly use racial slurs, I'm not sure "bigot" is the right word. A bigot would be someone who says all Jews are cheap or something.

Did Jackson's slur betray some racism toward Jews? I'd say probably. The only alternative is that he was being (clumsily) colorful like some comics are, particularly with archaic and/or sillier slurs.

But Allen? I have no reasonable doubt that he exhibited his racism. I don't know how else to judge it.

Flip it. If you saw a tape of Jackson speaking to a predominately black audience, then referring to a Jewish-looking man as "hymie over there," would you hesitate to condemn him?

Re the word, it may not be familiar to us, but it was to him - that was clarified when the story originally ran.

I used to be so annoyed by Buchanan. Now I like him, not his politics. He is honest about his bigoted views and makes no apologies. What you see is what you get, no surprises. His poor wife must be a saint, or completely insane.

Anonymous wrote:
Wait...what channel? The only television/cable news I ever watch is Fox News, when I am on the treadmill at the gym. I don't believe I have ever once seen him on Fox, and I frankly didn't know he was even around anymore. Where have you seen him? Is he the token conservative on some liberal channel? If so, too bad, because I don't think he's representative of a lot of conservatives today.

He seems to live out of "liberal" MSNBC's studio. He is constantly on there. I don't know that he is a token because "liberal" MSNBC has plenty of other conservatives on board. It's good if conservatives are starting to disown him.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=jsteele][quote=Anonymous]"Jesse Jackson made a bigoted remark. But, I don't think that remark defines him and I wouldn't say that he is a bigot so much as someone who doesn't know when to close his mouth."

Oh come on, there is no way you will give a caucasian a pass like this--nor should you. This double standard is tiresome[/quote]

Wrong. I am perfectly willing to agree with the other poster that George Allen is not a bigot. He made a bigoted remark and there are a few other questionable issues in his past, but I don't think it is fair to call him a bigot. Of course, [i][b]there are a number of other very good reasons to vote against him[/b][/i].
[/quote]

In order of importance, if you don't mind:[/quote]

1) He is a Republican. I'd like to see the Senate remain in Democratic hands. Really, the list could stop here. The rest, not in order of importance:
2) Based on his previous Senate term, he has a 0% NARAL (pro-choice) rating
3) He supported tax subsidies for companies that move US jobs offshore
4) He supports school vouchers, which I oppose
5) He supports drilling in ANWR
6) 100% Christian Coalition rating -- which means anti-gay among other things
7) He supported the PATRIOT act
8) He is joined at the waist with the oil and gas industry
9) and so on...

jsteele wrote:

TheManWithAUsername wrote:So what?

First, he's probably less relevant than Howard Dean.

Second, he simply said that he's not qualified to answer the question. Why should he be criticized for not adopting some dogma when he lacks real knowledge?

I don't know, Buchanan seems to constantly be on TV. Would he disavow the idea that white people have inferior genes or similarly plead ignorance?

Wait...what channel? The only television/cable news I ever watch is Fox News, when I am on the treadmill at the gym. I don't believe I have ever once seen him on Fox, and I frankly didn't know he was even around anymore. Where have you seen him? Is he the token conservative on some liberal channel? If so, too bad, because I don't think he's representative of a lot of conservatives today.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Jesse Jackson made a bigoted remark. But, I don't think that remark defines him and I wouldn't say that he is a bigot so much as someone who doesn't know when to close his mouth."

Oh come on, there is no way you will give a caucasian a pass like this--nor should you. This double standard is tiresome

Wrong. I am perfectly willing to agree with the other poster that George Allen is not a bigot. He made a bigoted remark and there are a few other questionable issues in his past, but I don't think it is fair to call him a bigot. Of course, there are a number of other very good reasons to vote against him.

In order of importance, if you don't mind:

Anonymous wrote:"Jesse Jackson made a bigoted remark. But, I don't think that remark defines him and I wouldn't say that he is a bigot so much as someone who doesn't know when to close his mouth."

Oh come on, there is no way you will give a caucasian a pass like this--nor should you. This double standard is tiresome

Wrong. I am perfectly willing to agree with the other poster that George Allen is not a bigot. He made a bigoted remark and there are a few other questionable issues in his past, but I don't think it is fair to call him a bigot. Of course, there are a number of other very good reasons to vote against him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OK, well I clearly think Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are bigots. Maxine Walters is a bigot. But as far as identifying the random MSNBC talking heads, no I do not know their names. But I found their comments 100% bigoted AND offensive. To me, nothing is more bigoted (by definition, really), then calling someone out SOLELY because of their race. i.e., not sharing the same political views as the majority of a particular ethnic group.

Jesse Jackson made a bigoted remark. But, I don't think that remark defines him and I wouldn't say that he is a bigot so much as someone who doesn't know when to close his mouth. Sharpton has done things that are largely considered to have been bigoted, but I don't know enough about him to say one way or the other. I would like to see you support your contention that Maxine Walters in a bigot.

I find it strange that you believe that "nothing is more bigoted (by definition, really), then calling someone out SOLELY because of their race" when you entered this discussion by saying there was no such thing as race. How can something that doesn't exist -- in your mind -- suddenly become the most important element? Isn't that like saying nothing is more bigoted then calling someone out based on their belief about the color of the Easter Bunny?

But, based on your examples and explanation of what is the most bigoted action, would you concede that Rush Limbaugh is undeniably a bigot? How about George Allen who is running for the Senate in VA? He used a racist term not unlike Jesse Jackson.

Limbaugh is a bigot, yes. I do not think George Allen is - I know him personally and I just do not think he is bigoted. I've been around horribly racist people (of all races) and I've never heard that word. But I can see where others would disagree.
Clearly I hate race labels - so yeah, I tend to think anyone who is fixated on race from any part of the political spectrum is usually bigoted.

Dr. King was fixated on race. Does that make him a bigot?

maybe I am naive, but I think the progress made since the 1950s make that an unfair comparison. If an Irish immigrant who protested in Boston or NYC in the 1870s (when irish were not considered "white" on the census) was transported in time to 2011 and did the same things, they would be an idiot.

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OK, well I clearly think Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are bigots. Maxine Walters is a bigot. But as far as identifying the random MSNBC talking heads, no I do not know their names. But I found their comments 100% bigoted AND offensive. To me, nothing is more bigoted (by definition, really), then calling someone out SOLELY because of their race. i.e., not sharing the same political views as the majority of a particular ethnic group.

Jesse Jackson made a bigoted remark. But, I don't think that remark defines him and I wouldn't say that he is a bigot so much as someone who doesn't know when to close his mouth. Sharpton has done things that are largely considered to have been bigoted, but I don't know enough about him to say one way or the other. I would like to see you support your contention that Maxine Walters in a bigot.

I find it strange that you believe that "nothing is more bigoted (by definition, really), then calling someone out SOLELY because of their race" when you entered this discussion by saying there was no such thing as race. How can something that doesn't exist -- in your mind -- suddenly become the most important element? Isn't that like saying nothing is more bigoted then calling someone out based on their belief about the color of the Easter Bunny?

But, based on your examples and explanation of what is the most bigoted action, would you concede that Rush Limbaugh is undeniably a bigot? How about George Allen who is running for the Senate in VA? He used a racist term not unlike Jesse Jackson.

Limbaugh is a bigot, yes. I do not think George Allen is - I know him personally and I just do not think he is bigoted. I've been around horribly racist people (of all races) and I've never heard that word. But I can see where others would disagree.
Clearly I hate race labels - so yeah, I tend to think anyone who is fixated on race from any part of the political spectrum is usually bigoted.

Dr. King was fixated on race. Does that make him a bigot?

"Jesse Jackson made a bigoted remark. But, I don't think that remark defines him and I wouldn't say that he is a bigot so much as someone who doesn't know when to close his mouth."

Oh come on, there is no way you will give a caucasian a pass like this--nor should you. This double standard is tiresome

He is wrong libs are white too

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OK, well I clearly think Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are bigots. Maxine Walters is a bigot. But as far as identifying the random MSNBC talking heads, no I do not know their names. But I found their comments 100% bigoted AND offensive. To me, nothing is more bigoted (by definition, really), then calling someone out SOLELY because of their race. i.e., not sharing the same political views as the majority of a particular ethnic group.

Jesse Jackson made a bigoted remark. But, I don't think that remark defines him and I wouldn't say that he is a bigot so much as someone who doesn't know when to close his mouth. Sharpton has done things that are largely considered to have been bigoted, but I don't know enough about him to say one way or the other. I would like to see you support your contention that Maxine Walters in a bigot.

I find it strange that you believe that "nothing is more bigoted (by definition, really), then calling someone out SOLELY because of their race" when you entered this discussion by saying there was no such thing as race. How can something that doesn't exist -- in your mind -- suddenly become the most important element? Isn't that like saying nothing is more bigoted then calling someone out based on their belief about the color of the Easter Bunny?

But, based on your examples and explanation of what is the most bigoted action, would you concede that Rush Limbaugh is undeniably a bigot? How about George Allen who is running for the Senate in VA? He used a racist term not unlike Jesse Jackson.

Limbaugh is a bigot, yes. I do not think George Allen is - I know him personally and I just do not think he is bigoted. I've been around horribly racist people (of all races) and I've never heard that word. But I can see where others would disagree.
Clearly I hate race labels - so yeah, I tend to think anyone who is fixated on race from any part of the political spectrum is usually bigoted.