Latin
Haynes
Cap City
Two Rivers
KIPP
DC Prep
Achievement Preparatory Academy
Howard University Math & Science
Basis (opens '12)

As a parent I instinctively want a majority proficient middle school. Seems like a fair threshold, doesn't it?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But, what is the effect on the 70% - the students who aren't struggling? Do they benefit from being around students who are strugglng, or would they be better off where all (or the vast majority) of fellow students are motivated and doing fine/excelling?

Actually, this something that data can tell you. I'm not an education policy specialist but in glancing over school level data in DC, it looks like high performing students aren't held back in effective students, even if they're around a majority of struggling students. The reverse however is more true struggling students will do better around a majority of non struggling students. I've looked at these effects for elementary schools before placing my academically high performing child in a group with many who aren't doing as well. I can't speak to whether that some asymmetric finding would hold for middle schools. But if true then concentrating the academically well of kids in high performing schools would do the not so well off more harm than the well offs derive benefits from it.

I believe this at the elementary level, NOT the secondary level. We don't really find out, because by middle school, non struggling kids generally concentrate themselves somewhere or else leave for charters, private, etc. That's why you see dcps middle schools either way above 50% proficient ( concentrating ) or way below 50% ( emptied out ) but rarely right on the cusp.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But as for a mental exercise, try this: take a struggling student and drop her in a school with 70% of her classmates also struggling. Now drop her in a school with 70% of her classmates who are doing just fine, some excelling.

Research shows that she will do better, progress faster in the school with fewer struggling students. I believe this is part of the charter school effect. Kids who enroll in one of these schools below grade level gets sucked along on the upward trajectory of motivated kids and teachers who can get their teaching mojo going.

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I believe this is true. But, what is the effect on the 70% - the students who aren't struggling? Do they benefit from being around students who are strugglng, or would they be better off where all (or the vast majority) of fellow students are motivated and doing fine/excelling?

I don't know where you are, but in my part of the city, 70% does feel like the vast majority. There are only three dcps middle schools in the entire city where more than half the kids are on grade level.

Anonymous wrote:DCPS has considered the advantages to concentrating its brightest students in one program, or keeping them distributed as best they can. They favor decentralization.

How's that working out, I wonder? And they don't mind concentrating in high school.

While struggling students may do better in a school with majority well performers, I would not want a well performing student in a school with a bunch of low achievers. The school may not have AP or honors classes and simply lacks the enthusiasm for learning and challenges that a school that is geared toward academic excellence: it's like comparing Thomas Jefferson to Dunbar or Harvard to Podunk U.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But, what is the effect on the 70% - the students who aren't struggling? Do they benefit from being around students who are strugglng, or would they be better off where all (or the vast majority) of fellow students are motivated and doing fine/excelling?

Actually, this something that data can tell you. I'm not an education policy specialist but in glancing over school level data in DC, it looks like high performing students aren't held back in effective students, even if they're around a majority of struggling students. The reverse however is more true struggling students will do better around a majority of non struggling students. I've looked at these effects for elementary schools before placing my academically high performing child in a group with many who aren't doing as well. I can't speak to whether that some asymmetric finding would hold for middle schools. But if true then concentrating the academically well of kids in high performing schools would do the not so well off more harm than the well offs derive benefits from it.

Then it appears there is a systematic separation between the parents of high performing kids with everyone else.

sorry, that should read "aren't held back in effective schools" (not students)

Anonymous wrote:But, what is the effect on the 70% - the students who aren't struggling? Do they benefit from being around students who are strugglng, or would they be better off where all (or the vast majority) of fellow students are motivated and doing fine/excelling?

Actually, this something that data can tell you. I'm not an education policy specialist but in glancing over school level data in DC, it looks like high performing students aren't held back in effective students, even if they're around a majority of struggling students. The reverse however is more true struggling students will do better around a majority of non struggling students. I've looked at these effects for elementary schools before placing my academically high performing child in a group with many who aren't doing as well. I can't speak to whether that some asymmetric finding would hold for middle schools. But if true then concentrating the academically well of kids in high performing schools would do the not so well off more harm than the well offs derive benefits from it.

Anonymous wrote:DCPS has considered the advantages to concentrating its brightest students in one program, or keeping them distributed as best they can. They favor decentralization.

The problem is they are losing the most motivated kids and families. If I had a super easy, adaptable, "good" kid, maybe I'd try Elliot-Hine or Jefferson. But because middle school is a critical time especially for a kid (like mine) who could go the wrong way, we'll be going private or charter. My kid will score very high on the DC-CAS in middle school and a lot of that will be thanks to his DCPS elementary school, but his charter school will get the credit.

Anonymous wrote:But as for a mental exercise, try this: take a struggling student and drop her in a school with 70% of her classmates also struggling. Now drop her in a school with 70% of her classmates who are doing just fine, some excelling.

Research shows that she will do better, progress faster in the school with fewer struggling students. I believe this is part of the charter school effect. Kids who enroll in one of these schools below grade level gets sucked along on the upward trajectory of motivated kids and teachers who can get their teaching mojo going.

I believe this is true. But, what is the effect on the 70% - the students who aren't struggling? Do they benefit from being around students who are strugglng, or would they be better off where all (or the vast majority) of fellow students are motivated and doing fine/excelling?

DCPS has considered the advantages to concentrating its brightest students in one program, or keeping them distributed as best they can. They favor decentralization.

I will argue that one reason the charters have higher test scores in middle school is partly because they attract motivated students and families.

But as for a mental exercise, try this: take a struggling student and drop her in a school with 70% of her classmates also struggling. Now drop her in a school with 70% of her classmates who are doing just fine, some excelling.

Research shows that she will do better, progress faster in the school with fewer struggling students. I believe this is part of the charter school effect. Kids who enroll in one of these schools below grade level gets sucked along on the upward trajectory of motivated kids and teachers who can get their teaching mojo going.

Another factor might be parents able to pick and choose a particular curriculum/teaching style/focus that reaches their individual child. Once a student is in an environment conducive to her own interests or way of learning, half the battle is done.

How to get this going within DCPS is another matter entirely.

Latin
Cap City
Two Rivers
KIPP
Basis (opens '12)
Howard University Math & Science
Haynes
DC Prep
Achievement Preparatory Academy

I guess there is an inherent assumption that Basis DC will be similar to the AZ Basis schools.