Anonymous wrote:OP, obviously you should not allow your BIL alone time with any children. However short supervised visits with the entire family present are not going to hurt your kids. If BIL is having a bad day, leave. I am a mental health social worker and am around unmedicated psychotic people on a frequent basis. Red flags to avoid are if BIL is fighting with anyone, has been using drugs/alcohol, or is showing any strange symptoms (sudden changes in sleep or behavior). Most people with schizophrenia are actually quite anxious and withdrawn. I would bet he avoids the kids altogether when you visit and spends his time alone.

What's the point then?

Most unmedicated psychotic people exhibit at least one or all the behaviors you described. The husband can have a relationship with his brother, and the rest of the family can be brought into the fold once the BIL is stabilized enough that he is not disruptive.

OP, your husband must have had a rough upbringing and harbors some difficult memories. I'd use this angle to get through to him. You could tell him you want to protect your kids from the same instability and behavior that he witnessed.

I have PS and alcoholism in my family. I would never bring my child around relatives when they're drunk, so why would I expose her to untreated psychosis?

OP, obviously you should not allow your BIL alone time with any children. However short supervised visits with the entire family present are not going to hurt your kids. If BIL is having a bad day, leave. I am a mental health social worker and am around unmedicated psychotic people on a frequent basis. Red flags to avoid are if BIL is fighting with anyone, has been using drugs/alcohol, or is showing any strange symptoms (sudden changes in sleep or behavior). Most people with schizophrenia are actually quite anxious and withdrawn. I would bet he avoids the kids altogether when you visit and spends his time alone.

Yeah, especially with what you just posted, I would not have my kids around him.

My sister is mentally ill and I cannot trust her to be around my kids. It is just the way it is. I suspect many of the people telling you that you are overreacting have never spent significant time around someone who is mentally unstable.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the comments, for better or worse. In response to several posters, yes I have been educated about the issue. My husbands father suffers from the illness and I knew about it before we got married. I've read several books and talked to mental health professionals about the likelihood of it getting passed down to my children. Thanks for your concern though as I'm sure that's where your comments came from. We do have contact with my husbands father and although he lives several states away have made an effort for him to get to know my children. It's not like I'm trying to keep anything "ugly" or "different" away from them. My concern about my BIL comes from several places. 1) He's gotten into violent altercations with others, 2) his condition is worsening, 3) he tried to burn down his home at the risk of his neighbors, and most importantly 4) he mentioned once to my husband that he is a bad person and when listing the reasons mentioned he was a child molester. I'm not saying I believe he is but what if one of his voices (he has admitted to having them) compels him. My husband understandably has baggage from dealing with his dad and does not enter the situation with a clear lens. That's where I come in. Thanks again for your responses.

Yikes. This was really not evident in your initial post--my previous comments were based on not seeing how he could be a danger to your children. It sounds like you definitely have cause for concern, and I wouldn't want my kids around someone in those circumstances. I really hope things get better for your BIL and the rest of your family.

Anonymous wrote:
YOU HAVE NO OBLIGATION TO THROW OUT YOUR CONCERNS CUZ IT MIGHT HURT SOMEBODY'S FEELINGS.
Your husband MUST understand that you all need to educate yourselves about the risks and challenges of having your BIL present and involved in your lives.

You guys need an experienced, educated, impartial third party to walk you through this.

Screw the potential for violence, why should you willingly and with a smile welcome such uncertainty? It's unreasonable that DH would expect this of you. And, the disregard that your husband is showing would really undermine my confidence in just how seriously he's taking the very normal concerns you've voiced.

Get thee to a Yellow Pages. You need to set up meetings with family support groups, medical doctors, social workers----the whole spectrum of area experts.

100% this. When it comes to my children I dont care who's feelings I might hurt when protecting my kids. At the very least the BIL might be very scary.

I agree with another poster, you simply have to assess the situation yourself when he arrives.

OP here. Thanks for the comments, for better or worse. In response to several posters, yes I have been educated about the issue. My husbands father suffers from the illness and I knew about it before we got married. I've read several books and talked to mental health professionals about the likelihood of it getting passed down to my children. Thanks for your concern though as I'm sure that's where your comments came from. We do have contact with my husbands father and although he lives several states away have made an effort for him to get to know my children. It's not like I'm trying to keep anything "ugly" or "different" away from them. My concern about my BIL comes from several places. 1) He's gotten into violent altercations with others, 2) his condition is worsening, 3) he tried to burn down his home at the risk of his neighbors, and most importantly 4) he mentioned once to my husband that he is a bad person and when listing the reasons mentioned he was a child molester. I'm not saying I believe he is but what if one of his voices (he has admitted to having them) compels him. My husband understandably has baggage from dealing with his dad and does not enter the situation with a clear lens. That's where I come in. Thanks again for your responses.

Anonymous wrote:OP, get some books from the library about the disease and educate yourself
You are being cold.
Oh, this disease is genetic, just because it is your husbands brother, does not mean that your husband or children could not have it in their genes.

No, PP, she's being protective.

OP, I have a sister who has paranoid schizophrenia, and a cousin who also has it. He's incarcerated in a mental hospital. Most people who suffer from the disease are only harmful to themselves, if at all. Some can be dangerous to others. Given that your BIL is still experiencing hallucinations and has not regulated his medication, I would be cautious about bringing your young children around him. It can be very disturbing and frightening to be around an adult who is erratic, delusional, and argumentative. If your children don't already have a strong relationship with him, I don't see the point in trying to initiate one now.

It's admirable that your husband wants to reach out to his brother and help his mother, but I think it's also reasonable for you to shield your children from the situation. Hopefully, your husband will respect your feelings on this one. Once (and if) your BIL sustains treatment and shows improvement, then you can initiate more family contact. In the meantime, lend a compassionate ear to your husband and MIL. Their hearts carry a heavy burden, so offer your support in other ways. After all, your BIL is a son and a brother.

If your BIL moves locally, suggest that he seek disability benefits. Also, while some assistance programs have cut back, there are resources for food stamps, housing, part-time employment, mobile phone access, etc. Your MIL should not have to exclusively support him.

If you're not already aware, one of the recurring issues with schizophrenics undergoing treatment is that they frequently stop taking their medications or alter the dosages. There are drugs that can be delivered intravenously on a monthly basis. My sister must go to her doctor's office every month to receive the medication that helps to control the psychosis. Since she's been doing this, her treatment has been much more successful. She's never 100% back to "normal," but she definitely functions better. It's better than the alternative. She lives on her own, volunteers, and has some social interaction with a couple friends.

Good luck to you and your family. I'm sorry you're going through this.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/paranoid-schizophrenia/DS00862

I would recommend having a family meeting with the mental health professional who works most closely with BIL to discuss whether he poses a possible risk to others, how the family can best help him, and how to deal with your concerns regarding your kids.

sorry...his immediate family.....

OP, I have a good friend who "does well". She is 110% self made. She met her DH who also happens to do well and is also 110% self made. They are great friends and fine people. He has a sibling who is schizophrenic in another state.

Part of why he lives so far away from the rest of the family is that her immediate family (to put it mildly) are NOT nice people. The long distance family, actually his DW's family also, believe somehow he should step up because he and DW "do well". His and her families triangulate to try to stick him and DW in the middle of "what should happen with this sibling".

Honestly, I don't think he cares because DW and his family only call him when they need something. The only real beneficial place for the sibling would be an institution, with qualified professionals. My friends background and DW's background know NOTHING about schizophrenia and could be of NO help. My friend has small children in the house and could NEVER have the sibling around for any period of time.

Yet, he gets these calls from cousins long distance that he somehow needs to help this sibling. Guilt, guilt, guilt. These same cousins have numerous family members around to help at any given time (unlike my friend they are trying to pressure), so they are pretty much clueless.

Here is the catch: before the sibling was sick (or the symptoms showed), the sibling did not talk to (friend) for 20+ years! Anything the sibling had to say was cold, nasty, insulting and of the message that sibling wanted nothing to do with (friend). Apparently, there was another sibling (we'll call them B and the sick one A) who was VERY close and capable of helping A, but B insisted on trying to disrupt the friend instead.

B talked to A every day for years and did NOTHING to HELP A! While I understand it may have been part of the illness, it does not excuse the behavior on B's part. My friend has a young family to take care of - by themselves with no help!

My point is, there is only so much you can do. Don't let other family members drag you into it, especially if no one is helping you when you need help. It took my friend a LONG time not to take on others sh*t. He is that nice.

Before someone judges, they never know what is going on with someone else. People should really back off more.

While it is helpful to educate yourself about the illness (it is genetic!), it is up to YOU how much you can do. GL.

YOU HAVE NO OBLIGATION TO THROW OUT YOUR CONCERNS CUZ IT MIGHT HURT SOMEBODY'S FEELINGS.

Your husband MUST understand that you all need to educate yourselves about the risks and challenges of having your BIL present and involved in your lives.

You guys need an experienced, educated, impartial third party to walk you through this.

Screw the potential for violence, why should you willingly and with a smile welcome such uncertainty? It's unreasonable that DH would expect this of you. And, the disregard that your husband is showing would really undermine my confidence in just how seriously he's taking the very normal concerns you've voiced.

Get thee to a Yellow Pages. You need to set up meetings with family support groups, medical doctors, social workers----the whole spectrum of area experts.