Anonymous
09/27/2011 15:05
Subject: Re:How to be the best mom in this situation
Anonymous wrote:Well, your DD will think before she calls others names again. Hopefully.
There is a difference between being called a bitch and a slut. Why make an insinuation about the girl's sexual behavior because of a dispute over a desk? Slut is a pretty damaging accusation in middle school. I understand the school's position.
I hope the girl who called the other girl name has learned her lesson a very hard way.
But are we spliting hair here? It does not seem like "the bully girl" was accusing "the victim girl" of being a slut. She used incorrect vocabulary. Would the matter have been any different if she would have used bitch in stead of slut? What matters is usage of curse word does not make the situation a bullying incident. The other matter is may be the parents need to intervene in a different way than making a mountain out of a molehill.
Anonymous
09/27/2011 14:57
Subject: How to be the best mom in this situation
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Okay, a student sat on or at a desk. On a desk? That's inappropriate. Your daughter used ONE curse word? And the other student files a bullying complaint? That's not bullying. That's an altercation. Very different things. The teacher telegraphed it was your daughter by assigning the seat.
Teens make mistakes. Telling a student to eff off (or whatever she said) is wrong. But the combination of the rush to label your daughter a bully (a form? one incident?) and the public shaming are not ideal. I'd tell you daughter to apologize and to take this as a lesson to never be rude to anyone in the police state that our schools have become again.
(I'm assuming your daughter did not use a racial or hate term here. That would change this a bit.)
OP here. Need to provide a little more background. So in this class DD has been using one particular desk (since her friends sit close to that desk). So, the other girls usually sits close to her friends and once in a while comes and sit at this desk which irks my DD (childish teen can be irked by silly things). However, she never acted out. So, last week the other girl sat at that desk and my DD asked her move so that she can be at her usual desk close to friends. The other girl did not move, they had a little discussion and in the frustartion my DD called the other girl "slut". The other girl texted the mom (do not know whether during the class or afterwards) and mom showed up with a bully form and reported that my DD bullied her. School conducted investigation and the consequence for my daughter was to sit at an assigned desk for 3 weeks. Same day, school sent a letter to let parents know of the situation. The teacher in this particular class distributed the letter and briefed that there was a bully incident in the class related to students feeling they own particular desk and behaving appropriately. She also mentioned the bully student has received consequences. That is how everone in the class came to know of my DD's mistake.
I totally agree that DD's action was inappropriate. However, I feel the punishment and ramification of the punishment is an example of counterproductive discipline used at school to set example.
The other issue I did not bring up earlier is that in this MS, in the past disciplinary consequences to students from cetain races were issued disproportionate to their school race mix (for example, even though population of x race is 25% of the school population, 66% of the disciplinary consequences are issued to students of X race) and hence the Principal was asked last year to look into it. As a result, there is a conscious effort to change the discipline statistics.
If this is what happened, then I think the school handled this incident appropriately. I understand your feelings as a mother, and I also understand how slut - just as bad a pejorative as can be - is used in MS and HS. Hopefully your daughter won't call anyone by that name again.
Anonymous
09/27/2011 14:57
Subject: How to be the best mom in this situation
Bullying should not be tolerated and parents and schools need to work together to make sure it is not.
That said, from the info here, this was NOT bullying. As other pps have said, this was an argument/altercation between two students. I'm troubled by the "public shaming" of the OP's daughter. It sounds like shaming was the goal here (maybe to be "tough" on bullying, maybe to address perceived inequities in the school's discipline policy). The goal should have been conflict resolution between the girls. The school and the counselor really blew it on this one.
That said, from the info here, this was NOT bullying. As other pps have said, this was an argument/altercation between two students. I'm troubled by the "public shaming" of the OP's daughter. It sounds like shaming was the goal here (maybe to be "tough" on bullying, maybe to address perceived inequities in the school's discipline policy). The goal should have been conflict resolution between the girls. The school and the counselor really blew it on this one.
Anonymous
09/27/2011 14:53
Subject: Re:How to be the best mom in this situation
Well, your DD will think before she calls others names again. Hopefully.
There is a difference between being called a bitch and a slut. Why make an insinuation about the girl's sexual behavior because of a dispute over a desk? Slut is a pretty damaging accusation in middle school. I understand the school's position.
There is a difference between being called a bitch and a slut. Why make an insinuation about the girl's sexual behavior because of a dispute over a desk? Slut is a pretty damaging accusation in middle school. I understand the school's position.
Anonymous
09/27/2011 14:52
Subject: How to be the best mom in this situation
OP, is it possible that there were some issues before this incident? A week of suspension is a pretty strong request. Now it's possible this family is just overprotective of their child and can't bear that anyone should say a mean word to her but it's also possible that there has been something going on with your dd and the other child previous to this incident. It's hard to comment without knowing more of the ongoing climate in that classroom.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This isn't bullying! It's an altercation -- totally agree with PP.
However bully/harrassment form was filed by the affected family. They claimed their DD is not feeling emotionally safe in that class. They requested the school to suspend my DD from the school for a week. School ruled that out and imposed the assigned desk consequence. However, school informed me this as a bullying incident and letter went home as that.
So I'm not really sure what you should do vis-a-vis the school - whether you should complain to them or not. But if the incident is a simple as you say it is, you will have to explain to your dd that sometimes shit happens. You do something that you shouldn't have done and the punishment is way harsher than it should be but you gotta buck up and work your way through it. Your kid can survive this and it will be something she can look back on and use as a learning experience.
Anonymous
09/27/2011 14:50
Subject: How to be the best mom in this situation
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If I were you I would suggest to your daughter that she say to the other kids, "You are right. I made a really bad choice and acted as a bully. But now you are bullying me and that is just as bad." I wouldn't intervene with the school at this point because dealing with this push back could be a good deterent for your DD in the future.
+1
+ + 1
Anonymous
09/27/2011 14:45
Subject: Re:How to be the best mom in this situation
Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the ownership of this desk has been in contention for awhile. Maybe the girl has been going home and telling her Mom that your daughter will not let her sit there and it escalated into a name calling incident. This perhaps pushed the Mom over the edge to file the complaint.
This is where we have failed as a society. I do not know if it was brewing and the other mom felt at the first chance of my DD's acting out to report it as bullying. When I was growing up, the other moms would call one another to discuss issues like this before resorting to assistance from school authority. My DD said (when I asked), if the table were turned she would not have liked me to report the other girl, in fact she might not even have brought this to my notice since she thinks she could have handled it on her own. My DD does not complain about her environment much and thinks that a little disagreement and discord will exist in school, always! She however, understands that her family expects her to behave respectfully and responsibly.
Anonymous
09/27/2011 14:29
Subject: Re:How to be the best mom in this situation
It sounds like the ownership of this desk has been in contention for awhile. Maybe the girl has been going home and telling her Mom that your daughter will not let her sit there and it escalated into a name calling incident. This perhaps pushed the Mom over the edge to file the complaint.
Anonymous
09/27/2011 14:18
Subject: Re:How to be the best mom in this situation
Bullying is a form of aggressive behavior, which may manifest as abusive treatment, the use of force or coercion to affect others, particularly when habitual and involving an imbalance of power.
That incident was not it, unless your daughter does this a lot. Since you said it was the first incident, it would appear from what we heard that this was simply an altercation, and that since the other girl called her mother and complained first, this was the result.
Absurd.
That incident was not it, unless your daughter does this a lot. Since you said it was the first incident, it would appear from what we heard that this was simply an altercation, and that since the other girl called her mother and complained first, this was the result.
Absurd.
Anonymous
09/27/2011 14:14
Subject: How to be the best mom in this situation
Anonymous wrote:OP,
Is your daughter the same race as the girl who sat at her desk? Has the other girl been disciplined before? If so, it may be her payback, her mother may be caught up in the unfair punishment percentages. This happens lots at schools. In any event, I'd urge your daughter to keep her cool and perhaps contextualize the matter with thoughts on the current zero tolerance and how it doesn't always address the matter ideally. A better outcome might have been the two girls meeting with the counselor and discussing conflict resolution. Also if the class is open seating, your daughter has to be flexible and not stake out her seat! I cannot believe a dispute that escalated to an altercation got labeled bullying. The word is overused and therefore its meaning diminished.
No, my DD and she are not from the same race. I do not know her having been disciplined (she is not exactly in the cirle of friends of my DD). I will talk to my DD a little more today. I totally agree with you that my DD should not have the undeue sense of ownership of a desk and should definitely not act out inappropriately. However, I wish the incident could have been handled a little more realistically and maturededly by the school and may be by the other girls parent (am I sounding defensive!).
Anonymous
09/27/2011 13:57
Subject: How to be the best mom in this situation
OP,
Is your daughter the same race as the girl who sat at her desk? Has the other girl been disciplined before? If so, it may be her payback, her mother may be caught up in the unfair punishment percentages. This happens lots at schools. In any event, I'd urge your daughter to keep her cool and perhaps contextualize the matter with thoughts on the current zero tolerance and how it doesn't always address the matter ideally. A better outcome might have been the two girls meeting with the counselor and discussing conflict resolution. Also if the class is open seating, your daughter has to be flexible and not stake out her seat! I cannot believe a dispute that escalated to an altercation got labeled bullying. The word is overused and therefore its meaning diminished.
Is your daughter the same race as the girl who sat at her desk? Has the other girl been disciplined before? If so, it may be her payback, her mother may be caught up in the unfair punishment percentages. This happens lots at schools. In any event, I'd urge your daughter to keep her cool and perhaps contextualize the matter with thoughts on the current zero tolerance and how it doesn't always address the matter ideally. A better outcome might have been the two girls meeting with the counselor and discussing conflict resolution. Also if the class is open seating, your daughter has to be flexible and not stake out her seat! I cannot believe a dispute that escalated to an altercation got labeled bullying. The word is overused and therefore its meaning diminished.
Anonymous
09/27/2011 13:53
Subject: How to be the best mom in this situation
Anonymous wrote:This isn't bullying! It's an altercation -- totally agree with PP.
However bully/harrassment form was filed by the affected family. They claimed their DD is not feeling emotionally safe in that class. They requested the school to suspend my DD from the school for a week. School ruled that out and imposed the assigned desk consequence. However, school informed me this as a bullying incident and letter went home as that.
Anonymous
09/27/2011 13:44
Subject: How to be the best mom in this situation
This isn't bullying! It's an altercation -- totally agree with PP.
Anonymous
09/27/2011 13:43
Subject: How to be the best mom in this situation
Anonymous wrote:... behaving appropriately.
meant to write "behaving inappropriately".
Anonymous
09/27/2011 13:38
Subject: How to be the best mom in this situation
Anonymous wrote:Okay, a student sat on or at a desk. On a desk? That's inappropriate. Your daughter used ONE curse word? And the other student files a bullying complaint? That's not bullying. That's an altercation. Very different things. The teacher telegraphed it was your daughter by assigning the seat.
Teens make mistakes. Telling a student to eff off (or whatever she said) is wrong. But the combination of the rush to label your daughter a bully (a form? one incident?) and the public shaming are not ideal. I'd tell you daughter to apologize and to take this as a lesson to never be rude to anyone in the police state that our schools have become again.
(I'm assuming your daughter did not use a racial or hate term here. That would change this a bit.)
OP here. Need to provide a little more background. So in this class DD has been using one particular desk (since her friends sit close to that desk). So, the other girls usually sits close to her friends and once in a while comes and sit at this desk which irks my DD (childish teen can be irked by silly things). However, she never acted out. So, last week the other girl sat at that desk and my DD asked her move so that she can be at her usual desk close to friends. The other girl did not move, they had a little discussion and in the frustartion my DD called the other girl "slut". The other girl texted the mom (do not know whether during the class or afterwards) and mom showed up with a bully form and reported that my DD bullied her. School conducted investigation and the consequence for my daughter was to sit at an assigned desk for 3 weeks. Same day, school sent a letter to let parents know of the situation. The teacher in this particular class distributed the letter and briefed that there was a bully incident in the class related to students feeling they own particular desk and behaving appropriately. She also mentioned the bully student has received consequences. That is how everone in the class came to know of my DD's mistake.
I totally agree that DD's action was inappropriate. However, I feel the punishment and ramification of the punishment is an example of counterproductive discipline used at school to set example.
The other issue I did not bring up earlier is that in this MS, in the past disciplinary consequences to students from cetain races were issued disproportionate to their school race mix (for example, even though population of x race is 25% of the school population, 66% of the disciplinary consequences are issued to students of X race) and hence the Principal was asked last year to look into it. As a result, there is a conscious effort to change the discipline statistics.