What is the rush, and what does the "leg up" actually achieve? (and my kid is ahead in math without the worksheets or the $$$ spent)

Not being snarky -- I just don't get it.

Anonymous wrote:

Okay PP but don't you think it's a stunning coincidence that the kids who are "developmentally" "ready" for accelerated math (worksheets) at age 3, 4, and 7 are all Chinese and Korean and living in Fairfax?

No. Perhaps if you travel the country and world, visit other school systems, your eyes will open wide.

What do you have against work (worksheets)? Have you taken a look recently at the make-up of the Bethesda/Chevy Chase and Fairfax lacrosse teams? Is it a coincidence these are the kids who are "developmentally" ready for lacrosse? Why? Do they like work (club lacrosse worksheets)?

why the anger in your posts? we make choices on behalf of our kids everyday and mostly to make them a better person. i don't understand why such anger toward one choice or the other, even if you think you've been judged?

Okay PP but don't you think it's a stunning coincidence that the kids who are "developmentally" "ready" for accelerated math (worksheets) at age 3, 4, and 7 are all Chinese and Korean and living in Fairfax?

No. Perhaps if you travel the country and world, visit other school systems, your eyes will open wide.

What do you have against work (worksheets)? Have you taken a look recently at the make-up of the Bethesda/Chevy Chase and Fairfax lacrosse teams? Is it a coincidence these are the kids who are "developmentally" ready for lacrosse? Why? Do they like work (club lacrosse worksheets)?

Okay PP but don't you think it's a stunning coincidence that the kids who are "developmentally" "ready" for accelerated math (worksheets) at age 3, 4, and 7 are all Chinese and Korean and living in Fairfax?

Let's not make it about your kids versus my kids. You are correct, some kids are not developmentally ready for certain sports (not ready from a neuro-skeletal muscular development perspective) and others are. It is therefore preposterous to think those that are ready should wait (or postpone participation) for those that aren't to catch up before they can play, participate and excel in sports. The same is true fro reading writing, 'rithematics and music. This is common sense. It has absolutely nothing to do with my kids versus your kids. If my kids can't figure out the butterfly swim stroke until the age of 9 or 10 (due to lack of core strength and neuromuscular coordination) this does not mean they may not be the next Michael Phelps. I understand this. But, there are a few excellent butterfliers at 6 and 7 years of age. They have the core strength and neuromuscular skeletal development to control their bodies at this age. This does not mean they will become the next Michael Phelps.

Do you think music, math and computer science are any different? Don't lets misplace envy or wonder with common sense. Some kids are ready sooner and others later. Both camps can allow their kids to proceed at their own pace even if that pace is much faster or slower than the pace of your own children. It's really not about your "annonymous" kids versus my kids as you prefer to frame the discussion. That's a very poor and self-centered starting point for meaningless discussion.

Anonymous wrote:

I have to say that while I agree that everyone has the right to raise his/her child as he/she sees fit and in whatever culture they want, I'd be careful about idolizing the cultures that work their children very hard and expect perfection. I have several adult Asian friends who greatly resent their "tiger moms" and frankly, although they were pushed relentlessly and I was not, we ended up at the same place in life. Do what you want, but for me, the aggressive pushing of young children to do things they are not developmentally ready for is not for me.

You may be confusing idolatry with those who prefer academics over sports. From my perch, the only idolatry taking place, by a wide margin, in America is with sports. Speaking from a physiologic perspective, if your're ready for swimming, lacrosse, baseball, soccer and music at a tender "WPSSI" age I think you're ready to read and write! Grey matter is not much different than muscle matter when it comes to appropriate response to stimulation. Don't fear. I, too, know several adult friends who greatly resent their"pussycat moms".

I'm the PP you quoted. I think you are making an assumption about me that's not true. My kids are actually academics kids not sports kids. My kids were not ready for organized sports at that age either. I don't know, maybe they are late bloomers or something but they are doing great in school now. Don't get me wrong, we read together a lot and did math type of games (counted things in the store, etc.). I just didn't have them sit down for rote math exercises at that age. For my kids (and a I suspect a lot of others), that sort of worksheet work is just not developmentally appropriate or necessary. Call me a pussycat, but I wonder if your kids will be any further along than my kids by high school or college. I doubt it. Any my kids will have a pleasant childhood to look back on.

I have to say that while I agree that everyone has the right to raise his/her child as he/she sees fit and in whatever culture they want, I'd be careful about idolizing the cultures that work their children very hard and expect perfection. I have several adult Asian friends who greatly resent their "tiger moms" and frankly, although they were pushed relentlessly and I was not, we ended up at the same place in life. Do what you want, but for me, the aggressive pushing of young children to do things they are not developmentally ready for is not for me.

You may be confusing idolatry with those who prefer academics over sports. From my perch, the only idolatry taking place, by a wide margin, in America is with sports. Speaking from a physiologic perspective, if your're ready for swimming, lacrosse, baseball, soccer and music at a tender "WPSSI" age I think you're ready to read and write! Grey matter is not much different than muscle matter when it comes to appropriate response to stimulation. Don't fear. I, too, know several adult friends who greatly resent their"pussycat moms".

Anonymous wrote:

The PP's comment about kids resisting is interesting. There has to be a huge cultural factor at play on enrolling in Kumon. Many of the Junior Kumon students are Asian, and at the center we go to many enroll their kids at age 3. I don't think they are concerned at all about their kids hating them. It is just expected of them, like you require your kids to brush their teeth every day. It was an eye-opener to see how advanced the kids who start at three are in both reading and math, especially when many of the kids speak another language at home. I sat in the room the first couple of weeks with my son, so I saw what levels the little kids were working on. It was amazing to see how independently the kids could complete their worksheets. When I hovered over my son and encouraged him after each problem, the instructor smiled and told me to let him try to do it on his own since they are also teaching independent work habits. I was on the fence before about enrolling him, but now I see that I see the benefits I will keep him enrolled for a while.

I would love to hear from others who have done junior kumon for a while. Did your kids get tired of going?

I think you are quite correct in this interpretation. Studying math (Kumon) and music for some groups is as interwoven in the cultural and family fabric as going to synagogue, reading the scriptures or playing lacrosse. Every one does it. What's the big deal. Thus, when others don't quite understand this phenomena and/or the life styles of others, they hurl out invectives ... torture, drill and kill, hatred and the like...as if their life style should be our preferred one size fits all.

I have to say that while I agree that everyone has the right to raise his/her child as he/she sees fit and in whatever culture they want, I'd be careful about idolizing the cultures that work their children very hard and expect perfection. I have several adult Asian friends who greatly resent their "tiger moms" and frankly, although they were pushed relentlessly and I was not, we ended up at the same place in life. Do what you want, but for me, the aggressive pushing of young children to do things they are not developmentally ready for is not for me.

Kids are like adults in some respects. They crave affirmation. If they excel at Math and get positive feedback or "ribbons" from peers and adults they pursue the subject further (with and without parental encouragement) ... much like the age group champs in soccer and swimming.

Kids are like adults in some respects. They grave affirmation. If they excel at Math and get positive feedback or "ribbons" from peers and adults they pursue the subject further (with and without parental encouragement) ... much like the age group champs in soccer and swimming.

Anonymous wrote:This is fascinating. Also thinking about math only, but here's my key question - do your kids think it's fun? Would they get as excited about time to go to Kumon as, say, soccer or ballet? Especially wondering about this for PK and K kids. Thanks.

Probably depends on your kid. My kid hated (yes, hated) going to soccer and dance. I finally had to give up my dreams for her to be in a dance recital or soccer game. She seems to like going to the Kumon place -- might be b/c it's pretty easy at her level so far and she feels like she's getting approval from other people (not parents). We are not part of the asian culture, and we don't know anyone who has done Kumon, so it's not something she is doing b/c she's seen others do it. I think she just likes feeling successful and it doesn't take very long at the center.

My K kid is begging me to do Kumon, but I'm waiting until later. He really likes math and wanted to do a "math camp" this past summer. He's not a whiz, he just likes to think about numbers and add. So, some kids would probably be more motivated than others. But, they start ALL kids on REALLY easy levels so that the kid thinks of him/herself as capable.

The PP's comment about kids resisting is interesting. There has to be a huge cultural factor at play on enrolling in Kumon. Many of the Junior Kumon students are Asian, and at the center we go to many enroll their kids at age 3. I don't think they are concerned at all about their kids hating them. It is just expected of them, like you require your kids to brush their teeth every day. It was an eye-opener to see how advanced the kids who start at three are in both reading and math, especially when many of the kids speak another language at home. I sat in the room the first couple of weeks with my son, so I saw what levels the little kids were working on. It was amazing to see how independently the kids could complete their worksheets. When I hovered over my son and encouraged him after each problem, the instructor smiled and told me to let him try to do it on his own since they are also teaching independent work habits. I was on the fence before about enrolling him, but now I see that I see the benefits I will keep him enrolled for a while.

I would love to hear from others who have done junior kumon for a while. Did your kids get tired of going?

I think you are quite correct in this interpretation. Studying math (Kumon) and music for some groups is as interwoven in the cultural and family fabric as going to synagogue, reading the scriptures or playing lacrosse. Every one does it. What's the big deal. Thus, when others don't quite understand this phenomena and/or the life styles of others, they hurl out invectives ... torture, drill and kill, hatred and the like...as if their life style should be our preferred one size fits all.

I posted previously about starting my son (almost 5) at Kumon three weeks ago. I thought I would have to cajole him into going but he really likes going to the center (20 to 30 minutes, twice a week) and enjoys doing the math packet at home (5 to 7 minutes). The work is really easy for him since they started him at the lowest level - 7A counting numbers to 10. At his center they also encourage him to write the numbers too. There is something about going and seeing other kids his age and even younger kids sit down and do work. In three weeks he has learned how to write numbers one to ten (he could only write two or three numbers before), and is becoming more focused. He just passed a level into 6A- numbers to 30, and was really excited to start working on learning numbers to 30. Since his daycare is all play-based/developmental I think it is a good balance. He just does the math program. He also plays soccer and has done swimming, basketball, creative movement, and a music class in the past. His little brother takes a gymnastics class and I asked my older son if he wanted to take a gymnastics class too. He said "No, I just want to do soccer and math class, when do I get to go to math class again?" Even though we played plenty of math games at home (Chutes and ladders, high-ho cherrio, card games like war, etc.), he now seems much more interested in math. So I think you can do sports/other activities and Kumon.

The PP's comment about kids resisting is interesting. There has to be a huge cultural factor at play on enrolling in Kumon. Many of the Junior Kumon students are Asian, and at the center we go to many enroll their kids at age 3. I don't think they are concerned at all about their kids hating them. It is just expected of them, like you require your kids to brush their teeth every day. It was an eye-opener to see how advanced the kids who start at three are in both reading and math, especially when many of the kids speak another language at home. I sat in the room the first couple of weeks with my son, so I saw what levels the little kids were working on. It was amazing to see how independently the kids could complete their worksheets. When I hovered over my son and encouraged him after each problem, the instructor smiled and told me to let him try to do it on his own since they are also teaching independent work habits. I was on the fence before about enrolling him, but now I see that I see the benefits I will keep him enrolled for a while.

I would love to hear from others who have done junior kumon for a while. Did your kids get tired of going?

I was thinking the same thing, PP. My kids would have resisted at that age. They weren't ready and I wasn't willing to have them hate me over it.

This is fascinating. Also thinking about math only, but here's my key question - do your kids think it's fun? Would they get as excited about time to go to Kumon as, say, soccer or ballet? Especially wondering about this for PK and K kids. Thanks.