Anonymous
08/22/2011 07:29
Subject: Re:DCPS Policy on Talented & Gifted & Acaemic Magnet Middle School Programs...Questions for You
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I would like to see magnets, G&T, at middle and elementary. A bilingual magnet elementary would be a big draw and very popular, if done right. Similarly I think we need a magnet middle school. Students in small MS programs don't have foreign language, science labs and more. activities because there are sometimes only 25 students per grade. Magnets would draw people into DCPS that are currently drawn into the specialized programs that many charters offer.
In Ward 5, middle class kids flee DCPS until a magnet program, probably a bilingual one, emerges. Momentum requires something innovative. With rigor there'd be a chance to keep kids in the system through middle school with a good middle school public option.
Where do the strong Ward 5 students migrate to? What schools?
They are all in charters (or private). There aren't any in DCPS.
Anonymous
08/22/2011 06:23
Subject: Re:DCPS Policy on Talented & Gifted & Acaemic Magnet Middle School Programs...Questions for You
C) magnet middle schools wouldn't have to be just for top students. It could also be organized around interest/talent. Languages or technology or arts.
OK, but locate these interest/talent schools in the correct Ward. McKinley Tech = successful. Hardy 'arts' MS = problems.
Anonymous
08/22/2011 02:48
Subject: DCPS Policy on Talented & Gifted & Acaemic Magnet Middle School Programs...Questions for You
Here are some issues to think about
Magnet/GT model does not always work to keep middle class in struggling system. KC was an interesting model for this over the last 15 years and it failed. I know this is CATO and they have their bias but this is a fairly accurate account from what I can tell having read local KC accounts http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-298.html
By definition GT is a very small group top 3-10% by intelligence tests not DC CAS. Most of our kids are smart but not this group. What I hear a need for is not really TAG persee but rigor. This has been one of my great disappointments in DCPS. Many teacher just don't know/feel/believe in pushing kids harder. This is a philosophical model that believes in a "more natural" type of learning. I have talked to teachers who deliberately avoid Fairfax and Montgomery county because they just see them as hard driving test factories. I don't know that I think DC has worse teachers a la Rhee, but I do know DC has a much larger percentage than may be appreciated who don't believe in those models of education. There is a self selection process working here in both the case of the schools and the parents and I am not sure it can be remedied by a few programs or magnet schools.
Finally you ask where are Ward 5 kids going- Hardy, Deal (if you can get in a ward 3 school -usually around 4/5) Latin, Haynes anywhere but here. But don't just blame Rhee they were doing that before Rhee that is why so many schools were closed in this ward when she started.
Magnet/GT model does not always work to keep middle class in struggling system. KC was an interesting model for this over the last 15 years and it failed. I know this is CATO and they have their bias but this is a fairly accurate account from what I can tell having read local KC accounts http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-298.html
By definition GT is a very small group top 3-10% by intelligence tests not DC CAS. Most of our kids are smart but not this group. What I hear a need for is not really TAG persee but rigor. This has been one of my great disappointments in DCPS. Many teacher just don't know/feel/believe in pushing kids harder. This is a philosophical model that believes in a "more natural" type of learning. I have talked to teachers who deliberately avoid Fairfax and Montgomery county because they just see them as hard driving test factories. I don't know that I think DC has worse teachers a la Rhee, but I do know DC has a much larger percentage than may be appreciated who don't believe in those models of education. There is a self selection process working here in both the case of the schools and the parents and I am not sure it can be remedied by a few programs or magnet schools.
Finally you ask where are Ward 5 kids going- Hardy, Deal (if you can get in a ward 3 school -usually around 4/5) Latin, Haynes anywhere but here. But don't just blame Rhee they were doing that before Rhee that is why so many schools were closed in this ward when she started.
Anonymous
08/22/2011 00:11
Subject: Re:DCPS Policy on Talented & Gifted & Acaemic Magnet Middle School Programs...Questions for You
Anonymous wrote:I would like to see magnets, G&T, at middle and elementary. A bilingual magnet elementary would be a big draw and very popular, if done right. Similarly I think we need a magnet middle school. Students in small MS programs don't have foreign language, science labs and more. activities because there are sometimes only 25 students per grade. Magnets would draw people into DCPS that are currently drawn into the specialized programs that many charters offer.
In Ward 5, middle class kids flee DCPS until a magnet program, probably a bilingual one, emerges. Momentum requires something innovative. With rigor there'd be a chance to keep kids in the system through middle school with a good middle school public option.
Where do the strong Ward 5 students migrate to? What schools?
Anonymous
08/21/2011 23:44
Subject: DCPS Policy on Talented & Gifted & Acaemic Magnet Middle School Programs...Questions for You
Middle Grades Roundtable
Wednesday September 7, 2011
10:00 - 12:00
Council Chamber - John A. Wilson Building
Committee of the Whole
Middle Grades: Preparing Student Success
Public witnesses
The roundtable will allow middle grades experts, and families to discuss our approach to grades 6-8 and moving forward.
Wednesday September 7, 2011
10:00 - 12:00
Council Chamber - John A. Wilson Building
Committee of the Whole
Middle Grades: Preparing Student Success
Public witnesses
The roundtable will allow middle grades experts, and families to discuss our approach to grades 6-8 and moving forward.
Anonymous
08/21/2011 23:35
Subject: DCPS Policy on Talented & Gifted & Acaemic Magnet Middle School Programs...Questions for You
Anonymous wrote: Magnet schools are not, by definition, selective. Some are. Many aren't. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnet_school
The better word choice may be controlled choice, but it sounds too clinical.
Anonymous
08/21/2011 23:32
Subject: DCPS Policy on Talented & Gifted & Acaemic Magnet Middle School Programs...Questions for You
Could one set up a magnet after school program? A neighborhood afterschool program for 5 to 10 schools. Elementary & MS. Math olympics, Olympics of the Mind . . .
Anonymous
08/21/2011 23:26
Subject: DCPS Policy on Talented & Gifted & Acaemic Magnet Middle School Programs...Questions for You
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Also, magnet doesn't mean selective. All it means is that the student makes a choice to go there. The population isn't dictated by a neighborhood or a feeder pattern. It is like a charter school in that regard.
I thought magnets were selective -- that kids applied and had to meet certain criteria to be accepted.
In contrast, charters are open to all, and if too many apply, entry is by lottery - luck of the draw
Nope. Magnet schools are not, by definition, selective. Some are. Many aren't.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnet_school
Anonymous
08/21/2011 23:26
Subject: DCPS Policy on Talented & Gifted & Acaemic Magnet Middle School Programs...Questions for You
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Brent actually has a modest TAG program into which kids test.
What grades?
Thanks!
Brent students as young as first grade are pulled out for weekly specials in math, science and reading. Students create project themes (civics, etc) and integrate it into museum night as docents. Plus after school PTA enrichment - chess/math club, Destination Imagination, birding, book clubs "(Harry Potter). Brent has six (1 PTA / 5 DCPS) specials plus Advanced Studies. Not to overstate, but there's enough to make it worth while.
Anonymous
08/21/2011 23:06
Subject: DCPS Policy on Talented & Gifted & Acaemic Magnet Middle School Programs...Questions for You
Could one set up a magnet charter with the sole requirement being DC CAS proficiency? Could one enroll 600 students (200 per grade) with a fifth grade GPA of 3.0? Students on the bubble can be considered case-by-case. Can some metric quantify the cohort needed to start from a position of strength?
Anonymous
08/21/2011 22:43
Subject: DCPS Policy on Talented & Gifted & Acaemic Magnet Middle School Programs...Questions for You
Arlington has some hybrids. Public schools that work off of lotteries, and draw from the whole county. This helps ensure a motivated parent body, since everyone has to "apply", but it isn't selective per se. This makes sense at the elementary level in particular, because how would you create selection criteria for students so young?
I don't think these should really be considered magnets, but it's an interesting approach.
I don't think these should really be considered magnets, but it's an interesting approach.
Anonymous
08/21/2011 22:40
Subject: DCPS Policy on Talented & Gifted & Acaemic Magnet Middle School Programs...Questions for You
.Anonymous wrote:Brent actually has a modest TAG program into which kids test.
What grades? Thanks!
Anonymous
08/21/2011 22:37
Subject: DCPS Policy on Talented & Gifted & Acaemic Magnet Middle School Programs...Questions for You
Anonymous wrote:Also, magnet doesn't mean selective. All it means is that the student makes a choice to go there. The population isn't dictated by a neighborhood or a feeder pattern. It is like a charter school in that regard.
I thought magnets were selective -- that kids applied and had to meet certain criteria to be accepted.
In contrast, charters are open to all, and if too many apply, entry is by lottery - luck of the draw
Anonymous
08/21/2011 22:08
Subject: DCPS Policy on Talented & Gifted & Acaemic Magnet Middle School Programs...Questions for You
Also, magnet doesn't mean selective. All it means is that the student makes a choice to go there. The population isn't dictated by a neighborhood or a feeder pattern. It is like a charter school in that regard.
Anonymous
08/21/2011 22:05
Subject: DCPS Policy on Talented & Gifted & Acaemic Magnet Middle School Programs...Questions for You
Anonymous wrote:Will magnet schools pull top students from struggling schools and concentrate them in one place? Wouldn't skimming be to the detriment of most students who are not attending selective programs? How can all 42,000 DCPS students benefit from magnets?
A) those top students are leaving the system or concentrating themselves somewhere ( charter, deal) by middle school anyway.
They do not stick around at a crappy school. The top students at crappy schools are a false top since all the students who would have topped them have left anyway. Thus the whole system suffers and standards sink.
B) I can see magnet middle schools keeping/attracting more families to the district who.then invest in their.neighborhood elementary knowing that they have a viable choice afterwards, thus improving the.elementary schools overall.
C) magnet middle schools wouldn't have to be just for top students. It could also be organized around interest/talent. Languages or technology or arts.