Anonymous wrote:Interesting. Do people redshirt because they are worried about the social hierarchy in the classroom? I can see how age and size are important, but in my son's pre-K classroom, the kids with older siblings seem to rule. The smallest and youngest are, by coincidence, also younger siblings and seem to have scrappy personalities and have no problem keeping up.

I've also found this to be true. Younger siblings do seem to have the edge in social skills most of the time.

I have an August bday girl not redshirted. I don't think that being the youngest in a class is ideal; however, I don't think that red shirting would have worked either. In our case our daughter is very tall and I did not want my daughter walking around like the giant in Gulliver's Travels. She's the tallest in the class as it is. She also likes school a lot-loves structure, always loved circle time in preschool. The preschool teachers all said SEND HER. She's somewhat less sophisticated than some of her classmates, but you'd be surprised that some of the oldest kids are not necessarily the smartest or most socially sophisticated. Nor are they necessarily the kids with the best impulse control. My approach to the whole thing was that given no evidence of learning disabilities or inability to (usually) comply with teacher directions, it was time to enroll. My daughter is involved in extra curricular activities in which she has been one of the older kids in the group with most kids a grade level behind. I can see in that setting that she's more mature than the others. But the classroom dynamic is going okay. By the way in the classroom when she was in the younger elem grades (when I went to observe or volunteer), all the girls were compliant with teacher directions (usually) and most of the boys had problems sitting still at least in K and 1st. So there may be more issues with boys who are close to the age cutoff. One thing to consider, OP, is how is your child's handwriting? They get a lot into writing in K and if she's behind in that area you might talk with preschool teachers, the ped, even an OT and decide whether that would be a deal breaker for entering K. There's no magic solution here, your child will be fine in the long run either way.

Interesting. Do people redshirt because they are worried about the social hierarchy in the classroom? I can see how age and size are important, but in my son's pre-K classroom, the kids with older siblings seem to rule. The smallest and youngest are, by coincidence, also younger siblings and seem to have scrappy personalities and have no problem keeping up.

Why on earth would anybody pay for an additional year of schooling? Unless your son/daughter is forced to repeat a grade because of poor academic performance, man up and power through it.

Anonymous wrote:I do know one thing. It would have been much better to leave her at her old nursery school for one more year and then redshirt her when I put her in the new school. I think she's going to know something's wrong or different this way.

PP of an August bday girl who we did redshirt. I wouldn't beat yourself up about leaving the nursery school OP, unless she was at NCRC where some kids move on and some kids stay. If her cohort from nursery school moved on, that would have rattled her confidence too.

What we did and what friends did successfully was to do a jk year at a totally different school from the nursery school or elementary school. It's still not a panecea, it can be hard to enter a group where the kids have all been together for a long time.

I don't know about your DD OP, but mine is young all around - even late to lose teeth for example. In her current school many of the girls have early fall bdays so would have been almost a full year older, as it is she fits in well. Not a huge leader or follower, goes back and forth. Her motor skills are in line with the other kids. Kids who fall really young in the cohort tend to struggle with that. Now that she is a bit older kids spend a lot of time jumping rope, dancing, playing soccer, she is fine, but a year earlier would not have been.

I'd also make sure that she gets lots of play time with her old nursery school friends if possible.

Have you talked to the teachers at all? Is there even one or two other kids in her class/grade who has similar interests?

I think a consultant might give you a different sense of different school personalities but even that can vary so much by the particular grade/class.

Best of luck to you and your little one!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:. . . I believe in red-shirting, but I don't think it's right for every kid and I think to determine if it's best for your kid we would need to know the insights from the teachers and any other professionals involved (assistants, person who conducted the WPPSI). . .

Not OP, but a parent confronting similar issues. I'd like to hear more from folks like the PP quoted here, who have developed nuanced views as to when red-shirting is in the child's best interests. What are key variables to consider (birthdate? gender? academic precocity? fine or gross motor development? size? likely cohort birthdate spread? birth order? temperament? others?), and how much weight would you assign to each? Many thanks in advance!

These are great questions. I don't think there is any consensus on them since Redshirting is such a new thing. Birthdate and gender are definite reasons to redshirt. I am not entirely sure about the other reasons, and I would love to know more as well.

OP here. Thank you for all the thoughtful responses. I was struck by so many of the early suggestions about switching schools and holding her back (or even switching schools and sending her forward). I do think the school is part of her problem. She came from a very small, very nurturing nursery school where the children seemed very young and "innocent" compared to her peers now. It's going to be hard to find another private school for her at this point, especially with two older siblings at her current school, but I'll seriously consider it.

I will talk to her teacher again. And thanks to everyone who suggested a consultant.

As for the reading vs. socialization issue, I agree that reading is not a big deal, though her WPPSI scores and her teacher's comments make me worry a bit about her being bored next year if she repeated. Academically there is a big difference between PK and K curriculum at her school.

My big questions are whether or not my child is really struggling to keep up socially because of her age; or is this part of her personality and holding her back will result in the same or worse issues; whether these confidence issues will improve by the end of the year; whether she'll get taller and look closer in age to her classmates; or whether we just chose the wrong school for her.

I do know one thing. It would have been much better to leave her at her old nursery school for one more year and then redshirt her when I put her in the new school. I think she's going to know something's wrong or different this way.

Thanks again. I really appreciate all these responses.

Anonymous wrote:

Isn't a lot of this leader vs. follower stuff really just about the child's innate personality and it wouldn't matter whether you redshirt or not? . . .


. . . And as an anthropologist, I can tell you that your personality is to either be a leader or a follower. You can build skills later in life to try to overcome your natural tendencies here, but this isn't something most kids or even teenagers can (or want to) do. Studies have shown that males don't actually have gr[eat] impulse control until their 20s. . .


This response strikes me as overly simplistic and inconsistent with my (albeit limited) experience. Our DS is four and is very aware of social hierarchies, which, among children his age, seem to be mostly age-related. If you put him in a classroom with a 12-month age range where he's on the low end, he'll follow whatever the oldest boys do. If you put him in the same classroom with the same teacher and the same 12-month age range but make him one of the oldest, he'll do what the teacher wants him to do and he'll expect the other children to follow him. I'm not speaking hypothetically here -- this pattern has repeated in his last two daycare rooms as the oldest kids have transitioned up to older rooms throughout the year and so he's progressed from being the youngest to being the oldest while other conditions have remained largely constant.

Actually, your post is overly simplistic and is based on a monkey-see monkey-do theory. Science has shown us that males have much slower frontal and prefrontal lobe brain development - the areas of the brain responsible for impulse control and reasoning. Now of course this doesn't mean older kids aren't more exciting - the first kid in a classroom who has the motor skills and reasoning capabilities for say, an X box game, will almost certainly be viewed as really exciting and appealing by the younger boys who haven't discovered this yet. Beyond that, I can't follow your logic. Are you saying a 6 year old will be able to follow instructions in kindergarten better than a 5 year old, and therefore will be more likely to influence the behavior of other kids? I have to disagree with you. A five year old who is a better reader and writer than a 6 year old in the same class is not going to try to mimic the behavior of the less advanced 6 year old, just because that child is older and larger. This is all about skill development and capabilities. If you hold your child back a year, perhaps this would give an otherwise delayed child the edge on a younger group of kids, but this doesn't mean this child is going to suddenly be interested in engaging in "leadership" or extroverted behaviors - it doesn't mean he'll lead the pack on the playground, or run for (or win) class president, or have the motivation or organize a group for a good cause some day.

It sounds to me like your son is an inherent follower - not a bad thing. When he's the youngest, he looks to the older kids to set the tone. When he's the oldest, he looks to the next oldest person (the teacher) to set the tone. In no scenario here is he leading anything.

I'm not saying redshirting is bad or that it shouldn't be done. On the contrary, I could see how it could help some children with self esteem issues, especially if they were likely to be on the bottom of the pack in an earlier class.

The person (people?) who suggested it might be the cohort might be onto something, and perhaps you could think about that. Teachers also have good insight, because they know what preK kids should be like (not just this group but many over time) and whether your daughter is mostly in line with those expectations or not. If she's in an unusually "advanced" class, it might be throwing off your sense of what to do yet the teacher might correctly feel she will be fine in K, espeically in a different mix of kids. Lastly, I wouldn't let your daughter's feelings about repeating preK sway you if you decide to do it. I don't necessarily think you should have her repeat, just that you shouldn't let that make the decision for you, because it will be fine.

Anonymous wrote:

Isn't a lot of this leader vs. follower stuff really just about the child's innate personality and it wouldn't matter whether you redshirt or not? . . .

. . . And as an anthropologist, I can tell you that your personality is to either be a leader or a follower. You can build skills later in life to try to overcome your natural tendencies here, but this isn't something most kids or even teenagers can (or want to) do. Studies have shown that males don't actually have gr[eat] impulse control until their 20s. . .

This response strikes me as overly simplistic and inconsistent with my (albeit limited) experience. Our DS is four and is very aware of social hierarchies, which, among children his age, seem to be mostly age-related. If you put him in a classroom with a 12-month age range where he's on the low end, he'll follow whatever the oldest boys do. If you put him in the same classroom with the same teacher and the same 12-month age range but make him one of the oldest, he'll do what the teacher wants him to do and he'll expect the other children to follow him. I'm not speaking hypothetically here -- this pattern has repeated in his last two daycare rooms as the oldest kids have transitioned up to older rooms throughout the year and so he's progressed from being the youngest to being the oldest while other conditions have remained largely constant.

DS happens to have a February birthday, so red-shirting isn't an issue for us. But if he'd been born in August or September, I'd surely have seriously considered red-shirting him, largely for the "leader vs. follower" issue.

Isn't a lot of this leader vs. follower stuff really just about the child's innate personality and it wouldn't matter whether you redshirt or not? It seems like the redshirting thing has gotten out of hand - if enough people do it, then everyone has to. Someone needs to be the youngest. I think it would make sense to redshirt only if your child is significantly physically smaller than the others, or can't keep up academically.
[Report Post]

This. And as an anthropologist, I can tell you that your personality is to either be a leader or a follower. You can build skills later in life to try to overcome your natural tendencies here, but this isn't something most kids or even teenagers can (or want to) do. Studies have shown that males don't actually have grate impulse control until their 20s.

I was the youngest in my class, back in the day. I turned 5 three weeks before school started. I was always the youngest in my class, even up in to college. I don't remember it being an issue other than I remember once in like 4th grade I wanted a Barbie Dream House for christmas and all my friends said it was babyish to play with dolls. I don't know that redshirting would have helped though, because I still played with barbies up until 6th grade!! I also remember when I started kindergarten, I was already reading and writing on my own (not common 30 years ago, but expected these days).

Sorry OP, I didn't quite get all the details - you mentioned your daughter was accepted to 4 great schools - are these just preschools, or are they private schools that go all the way through? I have a son with a late June birthday, and he's doing so well right now I don't think we are going to hold him back (he's in pre-K right now). However, if something becomes an issue, we've discussed having him do the private K at his preschool and then if necessary repeat K in the public schools instead of going right to 1st grade. I think that could be a good solution for your daughter, if it is an option. If the private school your daughter is in is the same one she'll attend for elementary, however, this obviously won't work for you.

Isn't a lot of this leader vs. follower stuff really just about the child's innate personality and it wouldn't matter whether you redshirt or not? It seems like the redshirting thing has gotten out of hand - if enough people do it, then everyone has to. Someone needs to be the youngest. I think it would make sense to redshirt only if your child is significantly physically smaller than the others, or can't keep up academically.

I'm the PP with the summer birthday, red-shirted boy. A big factor for us was that my son has tended to be a follower, which can be annoying when the kid is 4 but quite risky in the teenage years. We preferred that he be more rather than less mature when confronting any possible poor choices of his peers in the hopes that his maturity will overcome his "follower" tendencies.

Anonymous wrote:. . . I believe in red-shirting, but I don't think it's right for every kid and I think to determine if it's best for your kid we would need to know the insights from the teachers and any other professionals involved (assistants, person who conducted the WPPSI). . .

Not OP, but a parent confronting similar issues. I'd like to hear more from folks like the PP quoted here, who have developed nuanced views as to when red-shirting is in the child's best interests. What are key variables to consider (birthdate? gender? academic precocity? fine or gross motor development? size? likely cohort birthdate spread? birth order? temperament? others?), and how much weight would you assign to each? Many thanks in advance!