Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m always dubious when an adult claims they’ve been bullied by another adult. I’m sure it happens on rare occasions, but I tend to think the person claiming to have been bullied is just upset they haven’t been made to feel welcome by a social group.
The meaning of the word bully has been totally watered down as well as become shorthand for “not included”.

NP. No, I have witnessed a lot of mean, passive-aggressive, uber-competitive barbs, usually toward women who are, yes, non-conformist in some respect. It is very much like high school and it shocks me every time to hear these kinds of coded insults coming out of grown women's mouths. The nice moms are out there for sure, but can take a bit of effort to suss out. I have lived in a number of different areas and never felt cautious in mom groups outside of the DMV. Here there is usually one, or more than one, competing for Queen B status. Travel sports moms are notorious for this.

What's amazing me is that I'm seeing these same behaviors reflected in the moms' 12-13 yo daughters. The same clique behavior over trendy clothes, hair, iPhones, and nails. I think it's just not my crowd or values.

The dads are no better sometimes.

Anonymous wrote:I’m always dubious when an adult claims they’ve been bullied by another adult. I’m sure it happens on rare occasions, but I tend to think the person claiming to have been bullied is just upset they haven’t been made to feel welcome by a social group.
The meaning of the word bully has been totally watered down as well as become shorthand for “not included”.

Let me help, because I think you just don't know what bullying is.

Bullying requires engagement. If someone just isn't inclusive of you or doesn't want to be your friend, that's not bullying. That's a person expressing a social preference. It can hurt, and it can even be done in a hurtful way, but it's not bullying. It's just rejection.

Bullies engage and use that engagement to harm. Usually bullies befriend (in order to learn about you and collect info) and THEN reject. This happened to me in a workplace once. When I started, these women were *so* friendly -- they'd invite me to lunch or to parties at their homes, they'd swing by my office to chat, etc. But then they started gossiping about me, using things I'd shared with them (not secrets but just details about my life that they only knew because they'd gone out of their way to befriend me) to talk a bunch of s**t about me. They continued to act friendly to my face and never said anything to indicate to me that they had an issue with me. So I heard about everything second hand from other colleagues. They stopped inviting me to things but then would discuss these events during work meetings or in the hallway outside my office so that I knew I hadn't been invited. They had this way of looking at me and then at each other -- they had clearly decided I wasn't good enough for them and were enjoying how their shared dislike of me made them more of a unit. I think they also liked the feeling of power that came from judging me and finding me wanting. It was affirming for them.

They could have just... not befriended me. I watched them do this with another woman who joined the office after me -- they'd come on really strong and adopt the new person and then turn on her. There was also someone else who joined and they befriended her but didn't turn on her. I guess they decided she was one of them. But this is not just social rejection. It is aggressive behavior and I don't know how to describe it other than to call it bullying. It's the adult version of Mean Girls, the same weird social aggression masked as friendship. It definitely happens.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m always dubious when an adult claims they’ve been bullied by another adult. I’m sure it happens on rare occasions, but I tend to think the person claiming to have been bullied is just upset they haven’t been made to feel welcome by a social group.
The meaning of the word bully has been totally watered down as well as become shorthand for “not included”.

NP. No, I have witnessed a lot of mean, passive-aggressive, uber-competitive barbs, usually toward women who are, yes, non-conformist in some respect. It is very much like high school and it shocks me every time to hear these kinds of coded insults coming out of grown women's mouths. The nice moms are out there for sure, but can take a bit of effort to suss out. I have lived in a number of different areas and never felt cautious in mom groups outside of the DMV. Here there is usually one, or more than one, competing for Queen B status. Travel sports moms are notorious for this.

+1. I live in an area of Northern Virginia mentioned on this site as welcoming, and family friendly. The things I hear at neighborhood get togethers about other moms by supposed "friends" is insane. Not to mention, the passive-aggressive, catty remarks that are made to each other's faces. And this is between women within a friend group. Also, there are several women vying to be queen bee - one of which is an assistant principal at an FCPS high school. I hope she is more mature at work than she is in the neighborhood.

Anonymous wrote:I’m always dubious when an adult claims they’ve been bullied by another adult. I’m sure it happens on rare occasions, but I tend to think the person claiming to have been bullied is just upset they haven’t been made to feel welcome by a social group.
The meaning of the word bully has been totally watered down as well as become shorthand for “not included”.

NP. No, I have witnessed a lot of mean, passive-aggressive, uber-competitive barbs, usually toward women who are, yes, non-conformist in some respect. It is very much like high school and it shocks me every time to hear these kinds of coded insults coming out of grown women's mouths. The nice moms are out there for sure, but can take a bit of effort to suss out. I have lived in a number of different areas and never felt cautious in mom groups outside of the DMV. Here there is usually one, or more than one, competing for Queen B status. Travel sports moms are notorious for this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know but I was at a dinner last night with a group of moms and walked away feeling horribly bullied. I haven't felt this bad about a social interaction since high school.

Ugh. I’m sorry. What happened? Were these people you consider friends?

OP, it varies and is luck of the draw. Steer clear of Queen types.

These are folks who are supposed to be friends, though I no longer put them in that category. The dynamic has been trending this way for a while and I'm done.

I'm very comfortable making my own decisions while this group likes to focus on everyone having made the same choices. I've chosen not to dye my grays, go to the same Pilates classes, learn to play mahjong, have the same rules for my tween's phone use, buy the same type of cars or clothes or jewelry, etc. I didn't care to conform in middle school and I'm certainly not in 40s, no matter how you speak to me. I have never criticized any aspect of their appearance or their choices, but here we are. They seem to think that I'm fair game for criticism.

This is why I don't do friend groups. Friends, yes, but I try to avoid cohesive friend groups. I find that once a group is established, people often try to enforce conformity and view any difference as threatening to the group. As someone who has always kind of done my own thing, that dynamic always grates.

The one somewhat cohesive group I have is a mix of men and women and I think it's easier for people to be live and let live in it because people are less likely to compare themselves to someone of a different gender. It's also a mix of married and unmarried people, and a mix of parents and non-parents. It makes it very easy to just take each person as the are without feeling like someone else's choices are a commentary on your own choices.

It also makes conversations more interesting because I get to hear about the lives of people who are different than me instead of just sitting around while we all discuss how we're all doing the same things in the same way and aren't we smart? Maybe that's reassuring to people but I just find it boring.

I’m always dubious when an adult claims they’ve been bullied by another adult. I’m sure it happens on rare occasions, but I tend to think the person claiming to have been bullied is just upset they haven’t been made to feel welcome by a social group.
The meaning of the word bully has been totally watered down as well as become shorthand for “not included”.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 46 and have literally never met anyone like this, OP. I've lived in Europe and the US, and attended grade schools and universities in multiple countries. I know some comments can be interpreted in many different ways, and I always choose to take what people say ina. constructive manner.

If this keeps happening to you... consider you might be part of the problem, as in: you always gravitate towards the same toxic personalities, or you interpret innocuous comments in negative ways, or you actively do things to warrant criticism. Probably mostly #2, wouldn't you say?

Most people are kind and tolerant. Some of high-strung but well-meaning and definitely not looking to bully anyone. I'm willing to believe a few are bullies... but I haven't met anyone who goes out of their way to be mean.

Not OP but is this comment meant as a specific troll? I can never tell with stuff like this. Are you expressing your real opinion on the subject or did you sit down to write a post that would embody exactly the sort of not chill, not nice OP is referring to?

The part where you accuse OP, a person you do not know at all, of something you couldn't possibly know about her with "Probably mostly #2, wouldn't you say?" (unreal condescension there), but then claim "most people are kind and tolerant"? Chef's kiss, so perfect.

If this was a joke, well done. If it was in earnest, ugh.

PP you replied to. I was being honest, because on DCUM, this is what helps people to change and better themselves. If I met you face to face, I would be more diplomatic. I am generally seen as a polite, gentle person, because I am petite, non-threatening and have a soft voice None of those physical attributes come across online.

And no, I was not being condescending in any way. I genuinely suspect that OP tends to take things too personally, because this is usually what happens.

Well then please let me return the favor: yes, your post was condescending. OP didn't say "this keeps happening to me" or even go into any detail about what she is experiencing. But you jumped right into this authoritative position of telling her what her problem must be, and you said it in a very condescending way.

Also why would living in Europe or your college or grad (I'm assuming that was a typo) experiences be relevant? OP was specifically talking about experiences with fellow moms, almost certainly in the US. I'm sure your study abroad experience was very valuable to you but I'm not sure it will provide you with any extra insight into the experience of the average middle-age American mom.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because of your past you may be coming across as defensive. You may take offensive when people are just joking around.

Nah, I've been just fine for 30 years and have many other friends. It's a them, not me, situation.

This is how people with personality disorders think. Just saying.

Anonymous wrote:Because of your past you may be coming across as defensive. You may take offensive when people are just joking around.

Nah, I've been just fine for 30 years and have many other friends. It's a them, not me, situation.

Because of your past you may be coming across as defensive. You may take offensive when people are just joking around.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know but I was at a dinner last night with a group of moms and walked away feeling horribly bullied. I haven't felt this bad about a social interaction since high school.

Ugh. I’m sorry. What happened? Were these people you consider friends?

OP, it varies and is luck of the draw. Steer clear of Queen types.

These are folks who are supposed to be friends, though I no longer put them in that category. The dynamic has been trending this way for a while and I'm done.

I'm very comfortable making my own decisions while this group likes to focus on everyone having made the same choices. I've chosen not to dye my grays, go to the same Pilates classes, learn to play mahjong, have the same rules for my tween's phone use, buy the same type of cars or clothes or jewelry, etc. I didn't care to conform in middle school and I'm certainly not in 40s, no matter how you speak to me. I have never criticized any aspect of their appearance or their choices, but here we are. They seem to think that I'm fair game for criticism.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 46 and have literally never met anyone like this, OP. I've lived in Europe and the US, and attended grade schools and universities in multiple countries. I know some comments can be interpreted in many different ways, and I always choose to take what people say ina. constructive manner.

If this keeps happening to you... consider you might be part of the problem, as in: you always gravitate towards the same toxic personalities, or you interpret innocuous comments in negative ways, or you actively do things to warrant criticism. Probably mostly #2, wouldn't you say?

Most people are kind and tolerant. Some of high-strung but well-meaning and definitely not looking to bully anyone. I'm willing to believe a few are bullies... but I haven't met anyone who goes out of their way to be mean.

Not OP but is this comment meant as a specific troll? I can never tell with stuff like this. Are you expressing your real opinion on the subject or did you sit down to write a post that would embody exactly the sort of not chill, not nice OP is referring to?

The part where you accuse OP, a person you do not know at all, of something you couldn't possibly know about her with "Probably mostly #2, wouldn't you say?" (unreal condescension there), but then claim "most people are kind and tolerant"? Chef's kiss, so perfect.

If this was a joke, well done. If it was in earnest, ugh.

PP you replied to. I was being honest, because on DCUM, this is what helps people to change and better themselves. If I met you face to face, I would be more diplomatic. I am generally seen as a polite, gentle person, because I am petite, non-threatening and have a soft voice None of those physical attributes come across online.

And no, I was not being condescending in any way. I genuinely suspect that OP tends to take things too personally, because this is usually what happens.

Anonymous wrote:As a middle aged suburban mom who was relentlessly bullied in high school, I feel like I am reliving those horrific days again. I *hate* it, and I hate especially that it seems so much easier to be a dad: they don’t play these games and don’t care, so why do we?

Why can’t grown women just be cool and nice to each other? Real question.

I'm truly not trying to be rude but I don't have a clue what you're on about.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 46 and have literally never met anyone like this, OP. I've lived in Europe and the US, and attended grade schools and universities in multiple countries. I know some comments can be interpreted in many different ways, and I always choose to take what people say ina. constructive manner.

If this keeps happening to you... consider you might be part of the problem, as in: you always gravitate towards the same toxic personalities, or you interpret innocuous comments in negative ways, or you actively do things to warrant criticism. Probably mostly #2, wouldn't you say?




Most people are kind and tolerant. Some of high-strung but well-meaning and definitely not looking to bully anyone. I'm willing to believe a few are bullies... but I haven't met anyone who goes out of their way to be mean.

Agree with this. I'm 40, was bullied in 7th grade but thankfully that's it. Do some moms not want to be friends? Sure. That's life. I don't expect everyone to want to be friends with me. Are they rude or mean? Not at all. Here are some things to consider:

It's not bullying for people to not want to be friends with you or to hang out with you. If a group of moms say hi and are polite, but don't invite you to join their friend group, that's not bullying.
Sometimes when you're insecure, you can be drawn to toxic personalities because they can seem to be the most outgoing and fun
Sometimes when you're insecure, you can present yourself in a way that can be off putting to others. I've definitely BTDT.

+1 to both of these PPs. OP, if you're seeing this everywhere, consider that you are the common element. Either in how you are perceiving the situation or in how you're coming across to people.