Anonymous wrote:OP - DCUM is not the place for a thoughtful discussion on antisemitism, as demonstrated by the response you received. Assuming that you are not a troll, your concerns are well-founded but, as with most other topics of concern to the Jewish community, this issue cannot be discussed in good faith on DCUM.

+10

Anonymous wrote:I feel like people are frustrated with Israel for blindly allowing Bibi to do atrocious things. I do not see dislike towards Judaism in particular, just Israel.

Same. I have a big problem with Israel, but no problem with Jews. I wish more Jews would speak up about the atrocities of the Israel government.

[youtube] https://youtu.be/BHOJCbRJu28[/youtube]

I am Jewish. Nicholas Kristof is a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist and columnist who has reported on genocide in Darfur. Did you question his reporting then? I honestly don’t know what to say about the refusal to accept that Israel committed sexual violence against Palestinians in prison. The right wing Israeli government is to blame for fomenting antisemitism with its criminal actions.

Anonymous wrote:I'm so sorry you are a target, OP.

I am against the government of Israel's current foreign policies. I deplore the indiscriminate way they have destroyed Gaza and now south Lebanon, and how they let criminals among them torture prisoners and kill and steal from Palestinians in the West Bank.

In my view, you are not only a victim of baseline antisemitism that has always existed in many countries. But now, you are additionally a victim of your own criminal government, that ultimately will makes things so much worse in the long-term for Jews all over the world, because of all countries' natural revulsion at its unjustified mass killings of its neighbors in the Middle East.

As your neighbor, I want your wellbeing. Please stay safe, wherever you go.

Hey antisemite, the double loyalty trope is quite old.

Anonymous wrote:There doesn't seem to be a difference anymore between bigoted criticism of Israel and hatred for Jews -- it seems to be coming from the same place.

And the irony of all of it -- many Jews in the US wonder if Israel is the only place for them to be safe. Jews who never felt a connection with Israel, speak no Hebrew, have never left the U.S. It's like we are scared to be anywhere else.

I *wish* there was a difference but the NYT article proves that there isn't -- it is all motivated by hatred for a population that is less than 0.2% of the world. It is so silly. We are just trying to keep our babies safe.

How easily did you believe the NYT and other outlets about Palestinians beheading of 40 babies and burning others in ovens? Did you believe you and other believers were motivated by hatred against the Palestinian people that made you an immediate believer?

Anonymous wrote:There doesn't seem to be a difference anymore between bigoted criticism of Israel and hatred for Jews -- it seems to be coming from the same place.

And the irony of all of it -- many Jews in the US wonder if Israel is the only place for them to be safe. Jews who never felt a connection with Israel, speak no Hebrew, have never left the U.S. It's like we are scared to be anywhere else.

I *wish* there was a difference but the NYT article proves that there isn't -- it is all motivated by hatred for a population that is less than 0.2% of the world. It is so silly. We are just trying to keep our babies safe.

Most people are not as ignorant as you want them to be and know there is a difference.

Anonymous wrote:I sincerely can't cope with your constant gaslighting and propaganda. You are doing A LOT better than the children in Gaza, I can guarantee you that. Also, your entire post has nothing to do with religion. It's politics, pure and simple.

Yep. You called it right.

Anonymous wrote:I am Jewish and fearful of the growing antisemitism in the US and Europe especially. The NYT article was painful to read as I've always loved the NYT -- https://www.wsj.com/opinion/free-expression/kristofs-unbelievable-tale-d9d7b6ff -- I am not only afraid for my Jewish children and neighbors, but because I know what comes next. When we, as a society, pool an entire group of people as one issue, it doesn't stop with Jews -- that's just the place it starts. How can, after decades of fighting discrimination and stereotyping, have the NYT -- a well-respected paper -- write something so hateful without investigating and learning and visiting? Where is it safe to be Jewish? Is Israel the only place?

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Palestinians, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Palestinian.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Fixed it for you.

Accusing Nick Kristof of essentially lying when this stuff has been well documented for years is not only low, but reserves a very special place in hell for you. Stop gaslighting us.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/israeli-soldiers-walk-free-after-sexual-assault-on-palestinian-prisoner-at-sde-teiman/ar-AA1YuJD8?ocid=winp2fp&apiversion=v2&domshim=1&noservercache=1&noservertelemetry=1&batchservertelemetry=1&renderwebcomponents=1&wcseo=1

The majority of people I know who identify as Zionist seem to really get off on the suffering of Palestinians and are incredibly indifferent to the Nakba and everything that’s happened since then. So, no, I have zero sympathy for your feelings while you sit with immense privilege and safety.

Anonymous wrote:Why hate Israel? I don't hate Palestine or Gaza. I believe in a two-state solution. Israel has 100% a right to exist. So does Palestine. We can love all children and want all children to have a safe home.

It's this kind of moronic comment that gains Jews no sympathy here. If you can't bring yourself to tell the truth, you are not worth taking to.

Anonymous wrote:We don’t hate Jews. We hate Israel. If you don’t see the distinction, you’re the problem.

1000%

Until the Levant is a vassal state of a Western European power, there will be no peace. Self-determination has failed catastrophically. Not all nations should self rule, as has been shown.

Anonymous wrote:There doesn't seem to be a difference anymore between bigoted criticism of Israel and hatred for Jews -- it seems to be coming from the same place.

And the irony of all of it -- many Jews in the US wonder if Israel is the only place for them to be safe. Jews who never felt a connection with Israel, speak no Hebrew, have never left the U.S. It's like we are scared to be anywhere else.

I *wish* there was a difference but the NYT article proves that there isn't -- it is all motivated by hatred for a population that is less than 0.2% of the world. It is so silly. We are just trying to keep our babies safe.

I'm 15:21. First, you are reading an interpretation of data in this article. The article is not the end-all, be-all on the matter.

Second, it is true that after atrocities are committed, stupid people start to associate the handful who made those decisions with the population loosely associated with them. When Russia invaded Ukraine, people started not only side-eyeing innocent Russians everywhere, but boycotting Tchaikovsky - ridiculous! It's the same idea here, except that righteous anger at Israel's policies comes as an added layer on top of already existing anti-Jewish sentiment in many places in the world.

So you're not wrong, OP. But I hope you have a nuanced understanding of the situation. Many intelligent people CAN separate the Israel government and armed forced from individual Jews, and individual Israelis. This is what I do, and I believe many others do the same. But you can't escape the fact that there are many stupid people on this planet, who don't care to make those distinctions and will loudly create a hateful atmosphere on social media, leading to an increase of lone wolf attacks from the mentally ill, on innocent Jews the world over.