Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing. Diversity is the new modern religion/ideology (or kool-aid depending on your views) for certain people. You see it in their tones on this thread, firmly believing in the sanctity of diversity without a single shred of evidence it delivers the benefits they claim (amazing engineering coming out of, say, Japan or China, which are hardly diverse, so the idea that diversity for the sake of diversity gives you better ourcomes is more akin to religious beliefs than anything factual or truthful). And we all know what is really meant by diversity here. It's not more Asians or nowadays South Asians, who incidentally have had large presences in American engineering in the last 50 years. If we are being truthful, diversity mainly means the right quota of blacks, and in a profession like engineering, more women. Does it meaningfully make the outcome better? No. Does it make people feel better? Yes. Just like religion.

100%

You say there is amazing engineering coming out of Japan and China that are "hardly diverse" but 1) it depends on what kind of engineering you are talking about, for one thing, 2) you don't know that they aren't compensating for a lack of some kinds of diversity by strategically building teams that have other kinds of diversity (like bringing in people with completely different kinds of industry backgrounds, or using personality testing to build teams that promote communication/competition for good ideas), and 3) Americans live in a diverse society so if you're talking about building things for the American market, they should probably be designed/engineered/built by teams that understand that whole market if you want them to come out of top.

I can sorta see your point for certain commercial end items but that’s a subset of manufacturing. And for even commercial end use items, that’s a subset of the process. So, yes, for that subset of subsets, you would want to make sure you can evaluate what your full range of customers might want. Not sure engineers, no matter what their background is, are the best group for that though. Diverse or not, they’re still engineers.

That's a strange position to hold, many other industries perceive that problem-solving improves when you have a more diverse team instead of a less diverse one.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing. Diversity is the new modern religion/ideology (or kool-aid depending on your views) for certain people. You see it in their tones on this thread, firmly believing in the sanctity of diversity without a single shred of evidence it delivers the benefits they claim (amazing engineering coming out of, say, Japan or China, which are hardly diverse, so the idea that diversity for the sake of diversity gives you better ourcomes is more akin to religious beliefs than anything factual or truthful). And we all know what is really meant by diversity here. It's not more Asians or nowadays South Asians, who incidentally have had large presences in American engineering in the last 50 years. If we are being truthful, diversity mainly means the right quota of blacks, and in a profession like engineering, more women. Does it meaningfully make the outcome better? No. Does it make people feel better? Yes. Just like religion.

100%

You say there is amazing engineering coming out of Japan and China that are "hardly diverse" but 1) it depends on what kind of engineering you are talking about, for one thing, 2) you don't know that they aren't compensating for a lack of some kinds of diversity by strategically building teams that have other kinds of diversity (like bringing in people with completely different kinds of industry backgrounds, or using personality testing to build teams that promote communication/competition for good ideas), and 3) Americans live in a diverse society so if you're talking about building things for the American market, they should probably be designed/engineered/built by teams that understand that whole market if you want them to come out of top.

I can sorta see your point for certain commercial end items but that’s a subset of manufacturing. And for even commercial end use items, that’s a subset of the process. So, yes, for that subset of subsets, you would want to make sure you can evaluate what your full range of customers might want. Not sure engineers, no matter what their background is, are the best group for that though. Diverse or not, they’re still engineers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing. Diversity is the new modern religion/ideology (or kool-aid depending on your views) for certain people. You see it in their tones on this thread, firmly believing in the sanctity of diversity without a single shred of evidence it delivers the benefits they claim (amazing engineering coming out of, say, Japan or China, which are hardly diverse, so the idea that diversity for the sake of diversity gives you better ourcomes is more akin to religious beliefs than anything factual or truthful). And we all know what is really meant by diversity here. It's not more Asians or nowadays South Asians, who incidentally have had large presences in American engineering in the last 50 years. If we are being truthful, diversity mainly means the right quota of blacks, and in a profession like engineering, more women. Does it meaningfully make the outcome better? No. Does it make people feel better? Yes. Just like religion.

100%

You say there is amazing engineering coming out of Japan and China that are "hardly diverse" but 1) it depends on what kind of engineering you are talking about, for one thing, 2) you don't know that they aren't compensating for a lack of some kinds of diversity by strategically building teams that have other kinds of diversity (like bringing in people with completely different kinds of industry backgrounds, or using personality testing to build teams that promote communication/competition for good ideas), and 3) Americans live in a diverse society so if you're talking about building things for the American market, they should probably be designed/engineered/built by teams that understand that whole market if you want them to come out of top.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing. Diversity is the new modern religion/ideology (or kool-aid depending on your views) for certain people. You see it in their tones on this thread, firmly believing in the sanctity of diversity without a single shred of evidence it delivers the benefits they claim (amazing engineering coming out of, say, Japan or China, which are hardly diverse, so the idea that diversity for the sake of diversity gives you better ourcomes is more akin to religious beliefs than anything factual or truthful). And we all know what is really meant by diversity here. It's not more Asians or nowadays South Asians, who incidentally have had large presences in American engineering in the last 50 years. If we are being truthful, diversity mainly means the right quota of blacks, and in a profession like engineering, more women. Does it meaningfully make the outcome better? No. Does it make people feel better? Yes. Just like religion.

100%

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone believe diversity is valuable in most engineering or tech fields outside of corporate settings?

I lead a team of about 20 software engineers, and I struggle to see the value in diversity as it is currently being pushed at the corporate level. In some cases, it feels like it introduces challenges, particularly around communication, language, and cultural differences, which can add overhead to collaboration.

I can see where diversity makes sense in areas like outreach or programs focused on learning about and working across different cultures. I also see value when a tech company is serving a specific country or industry, where having a subject matter expert who understands that market can help guide the team. But that does not necessarily mean those individuals need to be embedded directly on the core engineering team.

In core engineering roles, I question whether diversity provides meaningful benefits beyond corporate talking points or checkboxes. In certain industries outside of tech, like power line workers and other roles where clear communication is critical for safety, these challenges could even pose risks.

Am I off base here? It sometimes feels like what is labeled as diversity in the tech industry is actually driven by cost considerations, such as hiring through visa programs, rather than a genuine focus on diverse perspectives.

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing. Diversity is the new modern religion/ideology (or kool-aid depending on your views) for certain people. You see it in their tones on this thread, firmly believing in the sanctity of diversity without a single shred of evidence it delivers the benefits they claim (amazing engineering coming out of, say, Japan or China, which are hardly diverse, so the idea that diversity for the sake of diversity gives you better ourcomes is more akin to religious beliefs than anything factual or truthful). And we all know what is really meant by diversity here. It's not more Asians or nowadays South Asians, who incidentally have had large presences in American engineering in the last 50 years. If we are being truthful, diversity mainly means the right quota of blacks, and in a profession like engineering, more women. Does it meaningfully make the outcome better? No. Does it make people feel better? Yes. Just like religion.

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing. Diversity is the new modern religion/ideology (or kool-aid depending on your views) for certain people. You see it in their tones on this thread, firmly believing in the sanctity of diversity without a single shred of evidence it delivers the benefits they claim (amazing engineering coming out of, say, Japan or China, which are hardly diverse, so the idea that diversity for the sake of diversity gives you better ourcomes is more akin to religious beliefs than anything factual or truthful). And we all know what is really meant by diversity here. It's not more Asians or nowadays South Asians, who incidentally have had large presences in American engineering in the last 50 years. If we are being truthful, diversity mainly means the right quota of blacks, and in a profession like engineering, more women. Does it meaningfully make the outcome better? No. Does it make people feel better? Yes. Just like religion.

Anonymous wrote:Communication problems can happen with any racial profile.
So not sure why diversity is a problem here

And cultural differences shouldn't influence the workplace since basic professional decorum is expected anyways.

Hire qualified candidates irrespective of skin color

Anonymous wrote:You are not a true engineer. True engineers value humanity, perspectives, and the unquantifiable aspects of people. Real engineers see problems as opportunities; and use these problems to create more robust solutions. You insult and dishonor our profession….