Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you say “lower rigor” what do you mean? Do you mean mostly on level classes, math through algebra 2, and no AP’s, or do you mean something else?

Also why do you imagine different SAT scores?

OP the HS has 4 paths in math, from hardest to easiest. Those in the hardest path (let’s call it level 4) do in 10th grade what level 2 kids do in 12th grade. Same with foreign languages and sciences. Some do environmental science in 11th; some are doing advanced physics in 11th. Some do Latin 5 in 12th; some are doing level 3. Some kids have 6 classes packed with advanced level courses and some are doing 4 core classes in level 2-3, plus no language and one hobby class like pottery. Perhaps the latter kid is seen as more interdisciplinary/ more interesting.

Neighbor whose DC is in my DC’s school told me one way is better than the other for college admissions. They are in the same grade at a small private but literally have not been in the same classes together since 8th grade. We both have younger kids so I’m wondering if we should steer younger sib to try their way. SAT scores listed above are real scores of the 2 students. Just curious who may do better. This is a great family so if their DC does better than ours, I’d have no issue with that but trying to learn more for our next kid.

Students are always placed in the context of their peers at their high school. When the most selective/rejective colleges see student A next to student B, student A doesn't have a chance.

+1

Ok in the examples I know from this cycle A did better but probably A had more interesting essays. I don’t think it is clear cut at all. I would say rigor matters less than I assumed and teacher recs matter more.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you say “lower rigor” what do you mean? Do you mean mostly on level classes, math through algebra 2, and no AP’s, or do you mean something else?

Also why do you imagine different SAT scores?

OP the HS has 4 paths in math, from hardest to easiest. Those in the hardest path (let’s call it level 4) do in 10th grade what level 2 kids do in 12th grade. Same with foreign languages and sciences. Some do environmental science in 11th; some are doing advanced physics in 11th. Some do Latin 5 in 12th; some are doing level 3. Some kids have 6 classes packed with advanced level courses and some are doing 4 core classes in level 2-3, plus no language and one hobby class like pottery. Perhaps the latter kid is seen as more interdisciplinary/ more interesting.

Neighbor whose DC is in my DC’s school told me one way is better than the other for college admissions. They are in the same grade at a small private but literally have not been in the same classes together since 8th grade. We both have younger kids so I’m wondering if we should steer younger sib to try their way. SAT scores listed above are real scores of the 2 students. Just curious who may do better. This is a great family so if their DC does better than ours, I’d have no issue with that but trying to learn more for our next kid.

Students are always placed in the context of their peers at their high school. When the most selective/rejective colleges see student A next to student B, student A doesn't have a chance.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Higher GPA - among my dc’s friends small differences in degrees of rigor didn’t matter at very top schools and lower rigor/higher grades did better.

For similar rigor, does a 4.0 versus 3.97 or 3.95 matter.

For the most selective ivy-types yes, it matters, at schools where a 3.95uw would be outside the top10%. It would not matter at schools where 0-3 students have a 4.0 every year. That is rare but there are schools like that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you say “lower rigor” what do you mean? Do you mean mostly on level classes, math through algebra 2, and no AP’s, or do you mean something else?

Also why do you imagine different SAT scores?

OP the HS has 4 paths in math, from hardest to easiest. Those in the hardest path (let’s call it level 4) do in 10th grade what level 2 kids do in 12th grade. Same with foreign languages and sciences. Some do environmental science in 11th; some are doing advanced physics in 11th. Some do Latin 5 in 12th; some are doing level 3. Some kids have 6 classes packed with advanced level courses and some are doing 4 core classes in level 2-3, plus no language and one hobby class like pottery. Perhaps the latter kid is seen as more interdisciplinary/ more interesting.

Neighbor whose DC is in my DC’s school told me one way is better than the other for college admissions. They are in the same grade at a small private but literally have not been in the same classes together since 8th grade. We both have younger kids so I’m wondering if we should steer younger sib to try their way. SAT scores listed above are real scores of the 2 students. Just curious who may do better. This is a great family so if their DC does better than ours, I’d have no issue with that but trying to learn more for our next kid.

Students are always placed in the context of their peers at their high school. When the most selective/rejective colleges see student A next to student B, student A doesn't have a chance.

Anonymous wrote:I know you won’t like this answer, but you want the highest GPA in the highest rigor you can take.

Your examples above are definitely nuanced. I am not a sure a college cares about the distinction of someone taking highest rigor in 4 core classes and then something less in electives vs someone who takes higher rigor in electives. I agree that someone who chooses pottery/art or music electives for several years probably isn’t penalized vs the kid who has no real interests and just loads up on another random high rigor class.

A public school example is that colleges don’t seem all the impressed with a kid taking AP Psych just to have another AP vs a kid who played in the orchestra all four years (assuming that is offered as a class). Is AP Psych “rigorous”? Some would say not so much even though it as AP in its name.

+1
And number of APs does not matter, it is quality. The average middle of the pack track at our private ends with 8-10APs. They never get into T25s or UVA or WM. Some get into VT. Their transcript has a mix of regular and honors 9 and 10th, usually an easier AP in 10(gov or psych), maybe Human Geo, then in 11th they usually have AP language, AP Precal, maybe another easy AP. In 12th they have APES, APStats (might have ABCal), APworld, another easy AP like Seminar or APcompsci, some have APPhysics1 which is taken in 10th by the top kids. These students have lower weighted GPA due to less honors 9/10 but the unweighted could easily be 4.0, due to the median grade in all courses being A- or A.
The top track(about 2 levels above these kids) comprises about 10-15% of students and typically would have a similar number of 10ish APs: APWorld, APUSH, senior AP elective(gov or Bio or seminar), APPhys1 in 10th, at least one of AP chem or APPhysC in 10-12, APLang in 10, APLiterature in 11, ABCal in 10 or 11, BC cal in 11 or 12(AB is mandatory before BC it does not overlap with BC curriculum). These students take all available classes honors in 9-10 and have a higher weighted, but the unweighted is often lower than 4.0 except the top few students of the grade who manage max rigor and a 4.0.

This is how colleges determine rigor, they look at the transcript of courses compared to what is offered and what the top students take. Often parents whose kids are not in the top classes do not understand that so many students take courses well above theirs. They count APs and think wow 10 has to be impressive and he has a 4.0 or 3.9 he will get in everywhere. When he won't because he is just average in his high school. If he gets a 1500 it will be worse than a 1380 because it will look like he could have handled the harder tracks but did not try.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which of these gets into more selective colleges from the same high school if everything else is equally strong / nearly identical?

A) regular rigor classes, 3.98, 1540 SAT
B) max rigor classes, 3.88, 1580 SAT

B does better every day of the week!

+1

There is no question. If it's truly "regular" bs "max" rigor, student A is cut in the first round for selective colleges

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think there’s a ton of difference between a near-4.0 and a near-3.9, unless they are shooting for Ivy.

You are ignoring a very important difference between them.

I know you won’t like this answer, but you want the highest GPA in the highest rigor you can take.

Your examples above are definitely nuanced. I am not a sure a college cares about the distinction of someone taking highest rigor in 4 core classes and then something less in electives vs someone who takes higher rigor in electives. I agree that someone who chooses pottery/art or music electives for several years probably isn’t penalized vs the kid who has no real interests and just loads up on another random high rigor class.

A public school example is that colleges don’t seem all the impressed with a kid taking AP Psych just to have another AP vs a kid who played in the orchestra all four years (assuming that is offered as a class). Is AP Psych “rigorous”? Some would say not so much even though it as AP in its name.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you say “lower rigor” what do you mean? Do you mean mostly on level classes, math through algebra 2, and no AP’s, or do you mean something else?

Also why do you imagine different SAT scores?

OP the HS has 4 paths in math, from hardest to easiest. Those in the hardest path (let’s call it level 4) do in 10th grade what level 2 kids do in 12th grade. Same with foreign languages and sciences. Some do environmental science in 11th; some are doing advanced physics in 11th. Some do Latin 5 in 12th; some are doing level 3. Some kids have 6 classes packed with advanced level courses and some are doing 4 core classes in level 2-3, plus no language and one hobby class like pottery. Perhaps the latter kid is seen as more interdisciplinary/ more interesting.

Neighbor whose DC is in my DC’s school told me one way is better than the other for college admissions. They are in the same grade at a small private but literally have not been in the same classes together since 8th grade. We both have younger kids so I’m wondering if we should steer younger sib to try their way. SAT scores listed above are real scores of the 2 students. Just curious who may do better. This is a great family so if their DC does better than ours, I’d have no issue with that but trying to learn more for our next kid.

Our private and the top public test-in magnet have five math levels, the highest being multivariable in 12th. The students as you say in different tracks have not had the same classes since 5th grade. UVA almost never admits from below the top 3 math groups(AB calc 12, BC cal 12, or MVC 12th). UVA also does not admit from the lower of the two English groups(there are only two, the top one is for the top 3rd). UVA essentially requires either Level 4 or level 5(AP) foreign language. In state for UVA. The ivy/T10 schools and UCB, do not admit outside of the top two math groups and also seem to strongly prefer at least two science AP in addition to honors Bio-Chem-physics. As you said the top 20% of the grade take 6 core courses most years. The bottom group take a mix of 4 to 5 cores plus electives.
Every single class in every track tends to have inflation: the median grade is an A-. The most "deflated" courses where the median is a B+ are a couple of the most difficult stem classes. These are only available to the very top level of students. Having a 3.85uw in the top math level and with 2 Sci APs (or 3) plus top english, FL, APUSH and all the rest could land at an ivy, but a 3.85 in one of the three lower tracks would not get into UVA, VT, or WM.

Anonymous wrote:When you say “lower rigor” what do you mean? Do you mean mostly on level classes, math through algebra 2, and no AP’s, or do you mean something else?

Also why do you imagine different SAT scores?

OP the HS has 4 paths in math, from hardest to easiest. Those in the hardest path (let’s call it level 4) do in 10th grade what level 2 kids do in 12th grade. Same with foreign languages and sciences. Some do environmental science in 11th; some are doing advanced physics in 11th. Some do Latin 5 in 12th; some are doing level 3. Some kids have 6 classes packed with advanced level courses and some are doing 4 core classes in level 2-3, plus no language and one hobby class like pottery. Perhaps the latter kid is seen as more interdisciplinary/ more interesting.

Neighbor whose DC is in my DC’s school told me one way is better than the other for college admissions. They are in the same grade at a small private but literally have not been in the same classes together since 8th grade. We both have younger kids so I’m wondering if we should steer younger sib to try their way. SAT scores listed above are real scores of the 2 students. Just curious who may do better. This is a great family so if their DC does better than ours, I’d have no issue with that but trying to learn more for our next kid.

Anonymous wrote:Higher GPA - among my dc’s friends small differences in degrees of rigor didn’t matter at very top schools and lower rigor/higher grades did better.

For similar rigor, does a 4.0 versus 3.97 or 3.95 matter.

When you say “lower rigor” what do you mean? Do you mean mostly on level classes, math through algebra 2, and no AP’s, or do you mean something else?

Also why do you imagine different SAT scores?

High gpa with high rigor of course

depends on rigor. colleges dont care if you take honors Spanish. they won't even notice. but they want to see the right math path and science sequence

Higher GPA - among my dc’s friends small differences in degrees of rigor didn’t matter at very top schools and lower rigor/higher grades did better.