Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Paid undergrad research is going to expect a lot of low level busy work to justify the expense.

On the other hand, unpaid research is going to be more productive for an undergrad to have a higher level role in a research project since they are volunteering their time. They can skip the low level busy work.

Finding a good faculty mentor who is willing to work with undergrads, and actually help them, is the hardest part.

Paid summer research for undergrads is never going to actually be a good opportunity. As the lowest level paid employee in the lab, they do the most basic tasks for hire.

Skip the idea of paid summer research. Trust me. Do unpaid research and actually be able to focus on higher level work, if you want to do research.

That is completely out of date. Paid summer and semester spots in labs at my kids’ ivies and their various friends at JHU UVA Brown UCLA have all led to publications. Some have been these prestigious research lab experiences others have been university research with professors. These schools and likely many others do not hire students to be lab assistants, they get trained on equipment and then join research projects with post docs or the PI or maybe a grad student. They go to lab meetings, have a lot of reading to do outside the lab to understand the work being done. While yes you can be a paid lab TA for an undergrad course lab, that is not the same as these paid research jobs.

No it is still accurate. Being listed as an author is not the same as leading your own project or sub project. I would not send my kids to one of these paid undergrad research summers. My oldest got a first author paper in college by avoiding these paid summers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Paid undergrad research is going to expect a lot of low level busy work to justify the expense.

On the other hand, unpaid research is going to be more productive for an undergrad to have a higher level role in a research project since they are volunteering their time. They can skip the low level busy work.

Finding a good faculty mentor who is willing to work with undergrads, and actually help them, is the hardest part.

Paid summer research for undergrads is never going to actually be a good opportunity. As the lowest level paid employee in the lab, they do the most basic tasks for hire.

Skip the idea of paid summer research. Trust me. Do unpaid research and actually be able to focus on higher level work, if you want to do research.

That is completely out of date. Paid summer and semester spots in labs at my kids’ ivies and their various friends at JHU UVA Brown UCLA have all led to publications. Some have been these prestigious research lab experiences others have been university research with professors. These schools and likely many others do not hire students to be lab assistants, they get trained on equipment and then join research projects with post docs or the PI or maybe a grad student. They go to lab meetings, have a lot of reading to do outside the lab to understand the work being done. While yes you can be a paid lab TA for an undergrad course lab, that is not the same as these paid research jobs.

The bigger issue is that the pool of paid jobs is shrinking with Trump’s funding cuts. Another huge round of cuts proposed for his next budget, hopefully will not pass as proposed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:REU is mostly for 2nd/3rd year college students and highly competitive.

If you have a decent gpa and you college is half decent at teaching/has prestige you should be able to get an reu acceptance. It’s not any more difficult than getting an internship.

Nonetheless, I think op is misguided. Research is a pretty bad waste of a premed’s time unless they’re applying md PhD. Look at REUs that prioritize clinical hours and shadowing experience.

REU is Research Experience for Undergrads. They are not for clinical hours or shadowing.
Research is extremely important for medical applications. REUs are just a small portion of the ways undergrads can get research.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Paid undergrad research is going to expect a lot of low level busy work to justify the expense.

On the other hand, unpaid research is going to be more productive for an undergrad to have a higher level role in a research project since they are volunteering their time. They can skip the low level busy work.

Finding a good faculty mentor who is willing to work with undergrads, and actually help them, is the hardest part.

Paid summer research for undergrads is never going to actually be a good opportunity. As the lowest level paid employee in the lab, they do the most basic tasks for hire.

Skip the idea of paid summer research. Trust me. Do unpaid research and actually be able to focus on higher level work, if you want to do research.

That is completely out of date. Paid summer and semester spots in labs at my kids’ ivies and their various friends at JHU UVA Brown UCLA have all led to publications. Some have been these prestigious research lab experiences others have been university research with professors. These schools and likely many others do not hire students to be lab assistants, they get trained on equipment and then join research projects with post docs or the PI or maybe a grad student. They go to lab meetings, have a lot of reading to do outside the lab to understand the work being done. While yes you can be a paid lab TA for an undergrad course lab, that is not the same as these paid research jobs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A slight possibility is actual EMT work if kid gets qualified.

Also long ago, my boyfriend had a job on campus
taking care of medical research animals. That was paid, not volunteer.

If you are financial aid eligible, some pricey schools have internship funding where you apply for a grant to "pay" you while you do unpaid research.

The eats that take college kids with certification are also usually volunteer squads. And that too is pretty competitive.

EMTs

Anonymous wrote:A slight possibility is actual EMT work if kid gets qualified.

Also long ago, my boyfriend had a job on campus
taking care of medical research animals. That was paid, not volunteer.

If you are financial aid eligible, some pricey schools have internship funding where you apply for a grant to "pay" you while you do unpaid research.

The eats that take college kids with certification are also usually volunteer squads. And that too is pretty competitive.

If you can't afford undergrad, how will your student pay for med school? Loans are now limited to 200k max lifetime.

I find it hard to believe that you "have to" pay for an out of state public. Do you have an affordable public university in your state? That is the way to go if the student is serious about premed, not stretching beyond your means for premed at an out of state public.

No one is forcing you to attend an expensive OOS school. My DS, who is now an attending physician, did research for a physician and it was unpaid, unless you count that he received free parking 😃

Anonymous wrote:Paid undergrad research is going to expect a lot of low level busy work to justify the expense.

On the other hand, unpaid research is going to be more productive for an undergrad to have a higher level role in a research project since they are volunteering their time. They can skip the low level busy work.

Finding a good faculty mentor who is willing to work with undergrads, and actually help them, is the hardest part.

Paid summer research for undergrads is never going to actually be a good opportunity. As the lowest level paid employee in the lab, they do the most basic tasks for hire.

Skip the idea of paid summer research. Trust me. Do unpaid research and actually be able to focus on higher level work, if you want to do research.

Anonymous wrote:There are a number of summer programs that pay. However, many of them are quite small (only accepting 6-8 students) and they are highly competitive. They seem to pay about $6-8k, and many include housing. The application process for many of these is pretty time-consuming.

They are competitive but there are so many spots collectively.
There are tons of them that are for premeds, some of them basic science research others clinical research. Some take 20-50 students. Of course the apps are time consuming, many students spend thanksgiving and winter break on them starting sophomore year. They rarely take students after freshman year. Transcript matters, those who are advanced in coursework by sophomore year have a big advantage over non stem or stem who have not completed 2 semesters calc, 2 semesters of chem, 1-2 physics, 1-2 Bio, ideally have some lab/programming courses by the time of application(3 semesters in).
They require recs from professors which is another hurdle. This is when starting in multivariable or O-chem or second semester physics is a huge advantage. More room to knock out more stem/premed req in the first three semesters. Or, simply being a BME on the standard track will get to an impressive list of courses by the 3rd semester.
The alternative is to look for research at their own college, often easier to get but often not paid as well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:REU is mostly for 2nd/3rd year college students and highly competitive.

If you have a decent gpa and you college is half decent at teaching/has prestige you should be able to get an reu acceptance. It’s not any more difficult than getting an internship.

Nonetheless, I think op is misguided. Research is a pretty bad waste of a premed’s time unless they’re applying md PhD. Look at REUs that prioritize clinical hours and shadowing experience.

REUs that are sponsored by NSF at various universities are not for premeds they are for pre-phD or pre-MD-phD. That part is true. That doesn't mean premeds do not get them, but not without being dishonest about future goals.
However, research is very important for premeds. Almost all premeds do research as an undergrad, in the semester or during summer. There are research-based summer internships that are for premeds. On campus research during the semester is very common and in fact expected at Ivy, T30s, UVA, WM, Clemson, Case, and yes good SLACs. It can be variably hard to get, depending on the undergrad. The better endowed schools usually pay the students or offer credit, and professors have funds to pay undergrads in the summer or there are other undergrad research funds to apply for.
Research is done in addition to clinical hours and shadowing. Shadowing is the low hanging least important fruit, should not be more than 50-100 hours: 8-10 hour days for 5-12 days in various offices. Shadowing can be knocked out in a couple of weeks, often over a winter break. It is a waste to do more because more shadowing does not add to the resume in a meaningful way. Clinical hours are separate from research and are easiest to get if the college has an affiliated med school. It is not hard to do a10 week research experience and get clinical shifts in phlebotomy or EMT on the weekends or in the 3 weeks of summer left after the 10 weeks. Or during the semester. Or one summer focus on clinical hours and one summer focus on research, plus scatter both through the semesters.
If you do not think this is all table stakes for MD programs these days, you are out of the loop or your student is at a school with terrible premed advising(or more likely has not used the available advising).

There are a number of summer programs that pay. However, many of them are quite small (only accepting 6-8 students) and they are highly competitive. They seem to pay about $6-8k, and many include housing. The application process for many of these is pretty time-consuming.