Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:504 is a civil rights law- grades can be one factor but should not be as heavily considered as with an IEP. Have your son write a paragraph about why he needs this accommodation for math and which features of his disability neccesititate it. Prep him and have him be prepared to respond to counter arguments. You can ask to have another 504 meeting where he personally advocates for this to be added. Or you can go above the school and reach out to the district 504 coordinator with your request and possibly file for 504 mediation. Also know that school staff can be retaliatory though, whether you like it or not, so weigh how much waves you want to make. Ask me how I know.

Huh? IDEA is also a civil rights law. That is not relevant point. For 504 you have to show an accommodation is needed due to a disability and the accommodation has to be reasonable. There is a very good argument that extra time for a kid doing advanced math without needing the extra time so far, is unreasonable. But if anyone wants to understand how Stanford has 40% of students with “disabilities,” well ….

A student must show a need for special education instruction to get an IEP-typically low to failing grades provide a strong indicator . For a 504 plan, the student needs accommodations to access the curriculum to level the playing field with their general education peers. A dear colleague letter from the department of education expressed that students with 504 plans who have hidden disabilities such as learning disabilities should be able to access accommodations to fully demonstrate their abilities. If a high IQ kid has a disability, without appropriate accommodations, they may not be able to fully demonstrate their abilities. In theory, they should have 504 protections but schools often refuse to serve these students. Their high IQ masks the extent of their disability.

Thus how we get 40% of Stanford students with accommodations lol.

I don’t think “fully demonstrate abilities” is the standard for this and I don’t think it is reasonable to give kids who are academically advanced without extra time, extra time.

If they have 140 IQ then they're modt likely going to be advanced no matter what. If their processing speed is only 5th percentile due to ADHD then they still need the extra time to fully demonstrate their abilities.

Having a high IQ and relatively lower processing speed is not a disability

...did you not see ADHD mentioned

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:504 is a civil rights law- grades can be one factor but should not be as heavily considered as with an IEP. Have your son write a paragraph about why he needs this accommodation for math and which features of his disability neccesititate it. Prep him and have him be prepared to respond to counter arguments. You can ask to have another 504 meeting where he personally advocates for this to be added. Or you can go above the school and reach out to the district 504 coordinator with your request and possibly file for 504 mediation. Also know that school staff can be retaliatory though, whether you like it or not, so weigh how much waves you want to make. Ask me how I know.

Huh? IDEA is also a civil rights law. That is not relevant point. For 504 you have to show an accommodation is needed due to a disability and the accommodation has to be reasonable. There is a very good argument that extra time for a kid doing advanced math without needing the extra time so far, is unreasonable. But if anyone wants to understand how Stanford has 40% of students with “disabilities,” well ….

A student must show a need for special education instruction to get an IEP-typically low to failing grades provide a strong indicator . For a 504 plan, the student needs accommodations to access the curriculum to level the playing field with their general education peers. A dear colleague letter from the department of education expressed that students with 504 plans who have hidden disabilities such as learning disabilities should be able to access accommodations to fully demonstrate their abilities. If a high IQ kid has a disability, without appropriate accommodations, they may not be able to fully demonstrate their abilities. In theory, they should have 504 protections but schools often refuse to serve these students. Their high IQ masks the extent of their disability.

Thus how we get 40% of Stanford students with accommodations lol.

I don’t think “fully demonstrate abilities” is the standard for this and I don’t think it is reasonable to give kids who are academically advanced without extra time, extra time.

Your opinion is your opinion and not actually what the law says.

A disabled Einstein is still eligible for accommodation if his disability is adversely impacting his education (IEP standard) or if his disability "substantially limits a major life activity" (of which "learning" is mentioned in the statute, which states that the list in statute is "non-exclusive").

Nope. “adversely impacting” is not the IEP standard. It is “needs special education to access the curriculum.”

For a 504 even if you can show a disability the accommodation has to 1) be related to the disability and 2) be reasonable.

Extra time for a kid already succeeding in a class that is 3 grades ahead just doesn’t pass the smell test. Sorry.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:504 is a civil rights law- grades can be one factor but should not be as heavily considered as with an IEP. Have your son write a paragraph about why he needs this accommodation for math and which features of his disability neccesititate it. Prep him and have him be prepared to respond to counter arguments. You can ask to have another 504 meeting where he personally advocates for this to be added. Or you can go above the school and reach out to the district 504 coordinator with your request and possibly file for 504 mediation. Also know that school staff can be retaliatory though, whether you like it or not, so weigh how much waves you want to make. Ask me how I know.

Huh? IDEA is also a civil rights law. That is not relevant point. For 504 you have to show an accommodation is needed due to a disability and the accommodation has to be reasonable. There is a very good argument that extra time for a kid doing advanced math without needing the extra time so far, is unreasonable. But if anyone wants to understand how Stanford has 40% of students with “disabilities,” well ….

A student must show a need for special education instruction to get an IEP-typically low to failing grades provide a strong indicator . For a 504 plan, the student needs accommodations to access the curriculum to level the playing field with their general education peers. A dear colleague letter from the department of education expressed that students with 504 plans who have hidden disabilities such as learning disabilities should be able to access accommodations to fully demonstrate their abilities. If a high IQ kid has a disability, without appropriate accommodations, they may not be able to fully demonstrate their abilities. In theory, they should have 504 protections but schools often refuse to serve these students. Their high IQ masks the extent of their disability.

Thus how we get 40% of Stanford students with accommodations lol.

I don’t think “fully demonstrate abilities” is the standard for this and I don’t think it is reasonable to give kids who are academically advanced without extra time, extra time.

If they have 140 IQ then they're modt likely going to be advanced no matter what. If their processing speed is only 5th percentile due to ADHD then they still need the extra time to fully demonstrate their abilities.

Having a high IQ and relatively lower processing speed is not a disability

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:504 is a civil rights law- grades can be one factor but should not be as heavily considered as with an IEP. Have your son write a paragraph about why he needs this accommodation for math and which features of his disability neccesititate it. Prep him and have him be prepared to respond to counter arguments. You can ask to have another 504 meeting where he personally advocates for this to be added. Or you can go above the school and reach out to the district 504 coordinator with your request and possibly file for 504 mediation. Also know that school staff can be retaliatory though, whether you like it or not, so weigh how much waves you want to make. Ask me how I know.

Huh? IDEA is also a civil rights law. That is not relevant point. For 504 you have to show an accommodation is needed due to a disability and the accommodation has to be reasonable. There is a very good argument that extra time for a kid doing advanced math without needing the extra time so far, is unreasonable. But if anyone wants to understand how Stanford has 40% of students with “disabilities,” well ….

A student must show a need for special education instruction to get an IEP-typically low to failing grades provide a strong indicator . For a 504 plan, the student needs accommodations to access the curriculum to level the playing field with their general education peers. A dear colleague letter from the department of education expressed that students with 504 plans who have hidden disabilities such as learning disabilities should be able to access accommodations to fully demonstrate their abilities. If a high IQ kid has a disability, without appropriate accommodations, they may not be able to fully demonstrate their abilities. In theory, they should have 504 protections but schools often refuse to serve these students. Their high IQ masks the extent of their disability.

Thus how we get 40% of Stanford students with accommodations lol.

I don’t think “fully demonstrate abilities” is the standard for this and I don’t think it is reasonable to give kids who are academically advanced without extra time, extra time.

Your opinion is your opinion and not actually what the law says.

A disabled Einstein is still eligible for accommodation if his disability is adversely impacting his education (IEP standard) or if his disability "substantially limits a major life activity" (of which "learning" is mentioned in the statute, which states that the list in statute is "non-exclusive").

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am unclear how the extra-time accommodation is being taken away, i.e. through what process. Presumably a properly constituted educational management team met and decided your DC was eligible for accommodations. Only a properly constituted team can meet to take it away. If you disagree with this decision, the team owes you a "prior written notice" which is a written document which describes the action taken and the legal justification for it. Did a team meet and did you get a PWN?

How were you told about "he needs to be able to complete the test only 25-50% to get the accommodation" -- in writing? orally? if oral, document by email to the person who told you so that it becomes a written statement. Same for the statement about that he can't use it to check his work. If these are the reasons you are being told that the extra-time is being revoked, then those statements need to be in the Prior Written Notice. The purpose of prior written notice is to make clear the basis for which an action is taken so that you can exercise your due process rights to challenge that actions.

When something is being taken away without your consent that is part of an IEP plan, your objection triggers "safe harbor" which means that the IEP plan stays in place without change as the dispute is being resolved.

OP has a 504 not an IEP. PWN doesn't apply. 504 has less "legal teeth."

OP, I am unclear how the extra-time accommodation is being taken away, i.e. through what process. Presumably a properly constituted educational management team met and decided your DC was eligible for accommodations. Only a properly constituted team can meet to take it away. If you disagree with this decision, the team owes you a "prior written notice" which is a written document which describes the action taken and the legal justification for it. Did a team meet and did you get a PWN?

How were you told about "he needs to be able to complete the test only 25-50% to get the accommodation" -- in writing? orally? if oral, document by email to the person who told you so that it becomes a written statement. Same for the statement about that he can't use it to check his work. If these are the reasons you are being told that the extra-time is being revoked, then those statements need to be in the Prior Written Notice. The purpose of prior written notice is to make clear the basis for which an action is taken so that you can exercise your due process rights to challenge that actions.

When something is being taken away without your consent that is part of an IEP plan, your objection triggers "safe harbor" which means that the IEP plan stays in place without change as the dispute is being resolved.

Anonymous wrote:We went through something similar. I asked several people for advice and the thing that I was told unilaterally is - he MUST use the extra time. In all subjects, he cannot pick and choose. Have him slow down so that he does not finish the test early and then just sit there and check his answers with the extra time. You have to play the system to some extent. Once teachers see him using it, every single time, they will support him using it.

He is young now, but as he gets older and his classes get more demanding, he will probably want it in all classes, not only math. He won’t need to pretend anymore at some point.

My son was self-conscious about it and reluctant to use it also. It was a battle at home, we told him he had to. Now he is older and is thankful to have it and understands, but at that age it’s just one of those things where you have to put your foot down as a parent and tell him he has to do.

About the idea that he’s getting As so he doesn’t need it or he’s advanced in math so he doesn’t need it (why not just dropped down to grade level instead) or as long as he is average, like C level, he doesn’t need it… we did encounter that but thankfully not from every teacher. Some teachers are just angry, miserable people who secretly despise kids. It sucks but it’s true. You have to just work around those people as much as possible. There are good teachers out there who actually want to help kids too.

I’m sorry you were going through this.

The bold is wrong and illegal. The disabled person decides how to use the accommodations. They are the only person who knows how they are feeling that day, and the only person who can assess what skills a piece of work requires that he might need to accommodate. Also, accommodations BY LAW are designed for the disabled person in his/her "unmitigated state," so if they have ADHD and they're on medication, they might not "need" as much accommodation. But, the accommodation is for those times when......maybe his medication has become ineffective due to growth spurt or hormone change, or he didn't get enough sleep, or he forgot to take medication, etc. All these situations are nothing that a teacher or team would even be in a position to know or even judge. Plus, there is the concept that the work continues to become more complex over the years, so a bright kid who is able to let's say write a paragraph by hand at age 8 in the time given, can no longer do so at age 14 when 5 paragraphs are required with appropriate grammar, punctuation and textual support. If a team keeps taking away accommodations, they are just putting the student in a "fail first" mode, which is inconsistent with the spirit of IDEA.

I also want to challenge many on this thread who seem to feel that advanced class or good grades mean that no accommodation is necessary. That is explicitly against IDEA. There is even a Department of Ed letter on this that states that students in advanced classes cannot be made to give up their accommodations as a condition of participating in the advanced class. Plus, it is a basic principle of IDEA that no single point of data determines eligibility, so a good grade in a class doesn't mean that a student can't have accommodations.

In fact, a student in advanced classes with all A's may still need an IEP and/or accommodation. For example, a straight A student with a diagnosis of dysgraphia who takes advanced classes may need explicit instruction in writing and accommodations such as extra-time, computer to write, spell check, etc. if there is a demonstrated adverse impact of dysgraphia on education (such as getting good marks on many English class assignments but struggling with the 1 or 2 essays assigned per quarter. That student would still qualify for an IEP and accommodation even if they were getting Bs (or As) in the class.

When PP says "you have to put your foot down and tell him he must use it," I think it's preferable to offer to partner with your kid about how to ask for the accommodation and support them. For example, in MS, I had to help my kid send emails in advance informing the teacher that he wanted to use an accommodation like extra time and suggesting when or how he would like to use it. That way, when the teacher denied it, we had evidence in writing that he had wanted to use it, and we could forward that to supervisory staff who could redirect the teacher behavior.

Also the last bold - about getting As so doesn't need accommodation and should drop down a level instead of getting accommodation -- are flat out illegal. The latter - dropping down a class from honors to regular instead of being accommodated - is a denial of access to advanced classes to otherwise qualified disabled students and is a serious civil rights violation. "Dropping down" is a form of forcing the student to self-accommodate by restricting them to less rigorous work.

You do not *ever* need to prove to the individual teacher that you need accommodation by using it every time. That puts the teacher in the position of being the decision-maker about whether the student is eligible for accommodation when, by law, the IEP team or 504 team already met, reviewed the data and decided on the accommodations. No single teacher can change the team-agreed accommodation plan or refuse to implement the accommodation plan. If they do, the school is "out of compliance" with the law. First refusal to accommodate, should result in the parent sending a polite written email reminder about the accommodation plan to the teacher, and expressing their confidence that the teacher will comply in the future. Second refusal by a teacher to accommodate should result in an email from the parent to the principal forwarding the 1st instance of non-compliance, noting the second instance of non-compliance and asking the principal to "offer the teacher whatever support is necessary to bring her into compliance" with the accommodation plan and noting that you hope this can be resolved "without resorting to our due process options." (which is code for filing a state or federal complaint, asking for mediation or suing).

I have found that accommodation plan non-compliance generally stops after a principal or someone district level (associate superintendent for special ed) is made aware of non-compliance because repeated non-compliance documented in writing is a financial liability.

My lawyer answer would be that if he isn’t using the extra time, there is no impact for leaving it in. So it stays.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:504 is a civil rights law- grades can be one factor but should not be as heavily considered as with an IEP. Have your son write a paragraph about why he needs this accommodation for math and which features of his disability neccesititate it. Prep him and have him be prepared to respond to counter arguments. You can ask to have another 504 meeting where he personally advocates for this to be added. Or you can go above the school and reach out to the district 504 coordinator with your request and possibly file for 504 mediation. Also know that school staff can be retaliatory though, whether you like it or not, so weigh how much waves you want to make. Ask me how I know.

Huh? IDEA is also a civil rights law. That is not relevant point. For 504 you have to show an accommodation is needed due to a disability and the accommodation has to be reasonable. There is a very good argument that extra time for a kid doing advanced math without needing the extra time so far, is unreasonable. But if anyone wants to understand how Stanford has 40% of students with “disabilities,” well ….

A student must show a need for special education instruction to get an IEP-typically low to failing grades provide a strong indicator . For a 504 plan, the student needs accommodations to access the curriculum to level the playing field with their general education peers. A dear colleague letter from the department of education expressed that students with 504 plans who have hidden disabilities such as learning disabilities should be able to access accommodations to fully demonstrate their abilities. If a high IQ kid has a disability, without appropriate accommodations, they may not be able to fully demonstrate their abilities. In theory, they should have 504 protections but schools often refuse to serve these students. Their high IQ masks the extent of their disability.

Thus how we get 40% of Stanford students with accommodations lol.

I don’t think “fully demonstrate abilities” is the standard for this and I don’t think it is reasonable to give kids who are academically advanced without extra time, extra time.

If they have 140 IQ then they're modt likely going to be advanced no matter what. If their processing speed is only 5th percentile due to ADHD then they still need the extra time to fully demonstrate their abilities.

Does Howard County have anything like a Parent Input Statement official form (like FCPS does) and did you fill it out? I found it very helpful, especially including copies of my complaints by email as an attachment to the Statement. The case manager is required to include the Statement in my child's case file, and I can reference the latest version at the meeting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:504 is a civil rights law- grades can be one factor but should not be as heavily considered as with an IEP. Have your son write a paragraph about why he needs this accommodation for math and which features of his disability neccesititate it. Prep him and have him be prepared to respond to counter arguments. You can ask to have another 504 meeting where he personally advocates for this to be added. Or you can go above the school and reach out to the district 504 coordinator with your request and possibly file for 504 mediation. Also know that school staff can be retaliatory though, whether you like it or not, so weigh how much waves you want to make. Ask me how I know.

Huh? IDEA is also a civil rights law. That is not relevant point. For 504 you have to show an accommodation is needed due to a disability and the accommodation has to be reasonable. There is a very good argument that extra time for a kid doing advanced math without needing the extra time so far, is unreasonable. But if anyone wants to understand how Stanford has 40% of students with “disabilities,” well ….

A student must show a need for special education instruction to get an IEP-typically low to failing grades provide a strong indicator . For a 504 plan, the student needs accommodations to access the curriculum to level the playing field with their general education peers. A dear colleague letter from the department of education expressed that students with 504 plans who have hidden disabilities such as learning disabilities should be able to access accommodations to fully demonstrate their abilities. If a high IQ kid has a disability, without appropriate accommodations, they may not be able to fully demonstrate their abilities. In theory, they should have 504 protections but schools often refuse to serve these students. Their high IQ masks the extent of their disability.

Thus how we get 40% of Stanford students with accommodations lol.

I don’t think “fully demonstrate abilities” is the standard for this and I don’t think it is reasonable to give kids who are academically advanced without extra time, extra time.

Anonymous wrote:[b]Schools will always do the bare minimum.

We have a lawyer and an advocate for 2e student and when they imploded in hs down to c’s from straight a’s they still did not care.

Only thing that got their attention was when they beat the shit out of kid who was bullying them.

Then they were all hands on deck - more out of fear of being sued by us as we had been requesting help for over a year for our child’s challenges and being bullied.

It’s some of that, but also schools want to see progress. If they see a kid not using or needing an accommodation, they will suggest removing it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:504 is a civil rights law- grades can be one factor but should not be as heavily considered as with an IEP. Have your son write a paragraph about why he needs this accommodation for math and which features of his disability neccesititate it. Prep him and have him be prepared to respond to counter arguments. You can ask to have another 504 meeting where he personally advocates for this to be added. Or you can go above the school and reach out to the district 504 coordinator with your request and possibly file for 504 mediation. Also know that school staff can be retaliatory though, whether you like it or not, so weigh how much waves you want to make. Ask me how I know.

Huh? IDEA is also a civil rights law. That is not relevant point. For 504 you have to show an accommodation is needed due to a disability and the accommodation has to be reasonable. There is a very good argument that extra time for a kid doing advanced math without needing the extra time so far, is unreasonable. But if anyone wants to understand how Stanford has 40% of students with “disabilities,” well ….

A student must show a need for special education instruction to get an IEP-typically low to failing grades provide a strong indicator . For a 504 plan, the student needs accommodations to access the curriculum to level the playing field with their general education peers. A dear colleague letter from the department of education expressed that students with 504 plans who have hidden disabilities such as learning disabilities should be able to access accommodations to fully demonstrate their abilities. If a high IQ kid has a disability, without appropriate accommodations, they may not be able to fully demonstrate their abilities. In theory, they should have 504 protections but schools often refuse to serve these students. Their high IQ masks the extent of their disability.

Anonymous wrote:504 is a civil rights law- grades can be one factor but should not be as heavily considered as with an IEP. Have your son write a paragraph about why he needs this accommodation for math and which features of his disability neccesititate it. Prep him and have him be prepared to respond to counter arguments. You can ask to have another 504 meeting where he personally advocates for this to be added. Or you can go above the school and reach out to the district 504 coordinator with your request and possibly file for 504 mediation. Also know that school staff can be retaliatory though, whether you like it or not, so weigh how much waves you want to make. Ask me how I know.

Huh? IDEA is also a civil rights law. That is not relevant point. For 504 you have to show an accommodation is needed due to a disability and the accommodation has to be reasonable. There is a very good argument that extra time for a kid doing advanced math without needing the extra time so far, is unreasonable. But if anyone wants to understand how Stanford has 40% of students with “disabilities,” well ….

504 is a civil rights law- grades can be one factor but should not be as heavily considered as with an IEP. Have your son write a paragraph about why he needs this accommodation for math and which features of his disability neccesititate it. Prep him and have him be prepared to respond to counter arguments. You can ask to have another 504 meeting where he personally advocates for this to be added. Or you can go above the school and reach out to the district 504 coordinator with your request and possibly file for 504 mediation. Also know that school staff can be retaliatory though, whether you like it or not, so weigh how much waves you want to make. Ask me how I know.