Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am trad wife and my husband is the complete opposite of red pill. We are both pretty liberal.
He doesn’t demand that I am a housewife. It was a decision we made together. I wanted it and he was ok with that. The traditional “gender roles” come naturally to us and we just go with that.

It works for us without the need to follow some script or ideology.

That’s different than what OP is talking about.

Do you think you should have the right to vote? Or your h’s vote is all the unit needs? If you say you want to vote you are not a trad wife.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, you have to tease it out a little bit more and not caricature in the manner you do. There are really two aspects of this: one is the structural critique, the second is how you respond to the situation in which you find yourself.

On the first, it seems to me a reasonable point of view—debatable of course—is that in the aggregate the current trend of late marriage, late childbearing, many sexual partners—is, on average, less conducive to a happy life than earlier marriage and childbearing with fewer sexual partners would be. So if you are saying that this view is incomprehensible or indefensible, I strongly disagree. But, it’s a collective action problem and, as you correctly point out, there are a lot of economic incentives that led to the way things currently are. So perhaps there is nothing to be done with this observation, but I think it’s a reasonable position.

2. So then, what is to be done? Obviously there are all sorts of potentially negative scenarios of a more traditional approach, the ones you posit are of course possible negative outcomes. But, there are also many negative outcomes to the current way of doing things too, not least of which are many women who are strung along by feckless guys with no intention of ever settling down into their mid-30s or beyond. It’s a world of trade-offs, and how you weigh the relative risks depends on your priors about human nature and how the world works.

And while people get all wound around the axle about the “body count” discourse—and I agree there is a lot of negative, unrealistic, and indeed crazy discussion of this issue in places—it seems obvious to me that someone with a body count of, say, 4 very likely has a different perspective on sex and relationships than someone with a body count of 87. You can’t expect people not to notice this or take it into account in making such an important decision as whom to marry.

I actually don’t disagree with your first point, but your first point is compromised by a component of your second point, regarding the feckless men with no intention of settling down.

I am a professional woman who married in her 30s. I would have loved to get married younger, but I didn’t meet my husband until age 35. The men I met earlier were just not interested in marriage. I also knew plenty of my female peers would have loved to get married in their 20s but couldn’t find anyone suitable. It takes both genders cooperating. The only thing this points to is for every woman to pursue a man 10+ years older. Fair enough, but then you have the gap in life experience. Of course “not all men,” but a 35-years older-old man could easily promise the world to his 22-year-old girlfriend only to renege on his promises. In this case, the onus is on the 22-year-old woman to properly assess the honesty and integrity of a man with a decade plus of experience? If she doesn’t hedge her bets, I.e, withhold sex, then she notches her body count before starting all over in the pursuit of marriage, and a year or two older.

Not every woman who marries late or gets to her mid 30s with no husband is there because she “wasted her 20s partying” or something like that. Sometimes it just doesn’t work out. Long term relationships run their course, or someone gets a job in another state, or other life events happen.

Anonymous wrote:Not defend or justify it, but understand the logic behind it.

Redpill men and tradwife women believe that a woman should marry in her early 20s, preferable as a virgin, and stay home and raise children. Got it.

This means that a woman that young needs to be able to find a man willing to settle down. Men in their 20s rarely want to settle down or take anything seriously. So, they need to find much older men? And if the man lies or cheats or uses her, it’s her fault for not being able to read minds and know his intentions? These same men also want a woman who is good in bed and “sex-positive.” But if the man doesn’t marry her, and she has to start over, that counts against her “body count.” But if she withholds sex and demands marriage…that’s also bad, apparently? She has to work some kind of magic to make a man want to settle down and marry her, without trying to trap him into a marriage?

Now the economics of it all. Tradwife at 22? Stay at home? One income, IN THIS ECONOMY? This requires her to only aspire to marry rich. But then it’s her fault for being a gold digger.
But then what happens if his high paying job is offshored to India? What if he’s replaced by AI? Who is going to pay for that rustic kitchen where she bakes bread from scratch?

Look, I’m all for the choice of early marriage/stay at home wife if that’s the life you want. I just don’t think the math adds up. Today’s economy has layoffs all over the place and everything is unstable. One income is simply too risky. It also puts all the blame on the woman if anything goes wrong. If she dates too many men before marriage - it’s her fault for having a high body count. If she settles down with the first guy who courts her, and it doesn’t work out, or if the guy lies and cheats, it’s her fault for not being a proper judge of character at age 20. If her husband loses his job, she has to suck it up and be poor, or it’s her fault do not being a supportive enough spouse.

Never mind feminism, the math just isn’t mathing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The red pill stuff isn’t real. Most “red pill” men don’t have live that lifestyle. The trad stuff is real but not in the way you think. They get married out of college - 25, stay home, but most are influencers or come from rich families. It's nothing special, they are glamorized stay at home moms. Dont believe what you see online.

Essentially, they make a career out of pretending they don't have a career.

Anonymous wrote:I am trad wife and my husband is the complete opposite of red pill. We are both pretty liberal.
He doesn’t demand that I am a housewife. It was a decision we made together. I wanted it and he was ok with that. The traditional “gender roles” come naturally to us and we just go with that.

It works for us without the need to follow some script or ideology.

Anonymous wrote:I am trad wife and my husband is the complete opposite of red pill. We are both pretty liberal.
He doesn’t demand that I am a housewife. It was a decision we made together. I wanted it and he was ok with that. The traditional “gender roles” come naturally to us and we just go with that.

It works for us without the need to follow some script or ideology.

Anonymous wrote:Well, you have to tease it out a little bit more and not caricature in the manner you do. There are really two aspects of this: one is the structural critique, the second is how you respond to the situation in which you find yourself.

On the first, it seems to me a reasonable point of view—debatable of course—is that in the aggregate the current trend of late marriage, late childbearing, many sexual partners—is, on average, less conducive to a happy life than earlier marriage and childbearing with fewer sexual partners would be. So if you are saying that this view is incomprehensible or indefensible, I strongly disagree. But, it’s a collective action problem and, as you correctly point out, there are a lot of economic incentives that led to the way things currently are. So perhaps there is nothing to be done with this observation, but I think it’s a reasonable position.

2. So then, what is to be done? Obviously there are all sorts of potentially negative scenarios of a more traditional approach, the ones you posit are of course possible negative outcomes. But, there are also many negative outcomes to the current way of doing things too, not least of which are many women who are strung along by feckless guys with no intention of ever settling down into their mid-30s or beyond. It’s a world of trade-offs, and how you weigh the relative risks depends on your priors about human nature and how the world works.

And while people get all wound around the axle about the “body count” discourse—and I agree there is a lot of negative, unrealistic, and indeed crazy discussion of this issue in places—it seems obvious to me that someone with a body count of, say, 4 very likely has a different perspective on sex and relationships than someone with a body count of 87. You can’t expect people not to notice this or take it into account in making such an important decision as whom to marry.