Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only actual use case I have heard of that makes sense is for transactions that involve no trust issues, such that you do not need all the bells and whistles of our current payment processing system. Eg - you could use crypto instead of your debit/credit card to buy coffee because you are getting the coffee then and there and won’t ever need to do a charge back. The idea is that crypto in that scenario could be cheaper for vendors and consumers compared to the high expense of card processing fees.

But AFAIK, the crypto “rails” are not developed enough to make that scenario into a reality because it takes so much longer to process a crypto transaction on the blockchain vs the Visa/MC system.

But yes, if crypto and blockchain can break the Visa/MC stranglehold on payment processing and lower the fees there could be a use case.

But as a vendor, I don’t want to accept payments that could halve between when coffee was poured and when it was drank!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only actual use case I have heard of that makes sense is for transactions that involve no trust issues, such that you do not need all the bells and whistles of our current payment processing system. Eg - you could use crypto instead of your debit/credit card to buy coffee because you are getting the coffee then and there and won’t ever need to do a charge back. The idea is that crypto in that scenario could be cheaper for vendors and consumers compared to the high expense of card processing fees.

But AFAIK, the crypto “rails” are not developed enough to make that scenario into a reality because it takes so much longer to process a crypto transaction on the blockchain vs the Visa/MC system.

But yes, if crypto and blockchain can break the Visa/MC stranglehold on payment processing and lower the fees there could be a use case.

This argument has never made any sense to me. The inherent processing costs for credit card transactions are orders of magnitude lower than bitcoin transactions. Part of it is that recipients don't pay them- it is currently being paid through mining rewards and the rampant speculation. But the other part that you alluded to is that we're not getting some important things from bitcoin. Those credit card processing fees are paying for scale, speed, stability, and fraud/consumer protection. If you want those same characteristics from bitcoin, the processing fees will go up significantly. And because the inherent costs are higher than credit card transactions, I'd certainly expect the cryptocurrency costs to be higher.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only actual use case I have heard of that makes sense is for transactions that involve no trust issues, such that you do not need all the bells and whistles of our current payment processing system. Eg - you could use crypto instead of your debit/credit card to buy coffee because you are getting the coffee then and there and won’t ever need to do a charge back. The idea is that crypto in that scenario could be cheaper for vendors and consumers compared to the high expense of card processing fees.

But AFAIK, the crypto “rails” are not developed enough to make that scenario into a reality because it takes so much longer to process a crypto transaction on the blockchain vs the Visa/MC system.

But yes, if crypto and blockchain can break the Visa/MC stranglehold on payment processing and lower the fees there could be a use case.

This argument has never made any sense to me. The inherent processing costs for credit card transactions are orders of magnitude lower than bitcoin transactions. Part of it is that recipients don't pay them- it is currently being paid through mining rewards and the rampant speculation. But the other part that you alluded to is that we're not getting some important things from bitcoin. Those credit card processing fees are paying for scale, speed, stability, and fraud/consumer protection. If you want those same characteristics from bitcoin, the processing fees will go up significantly. And because the inherent costs are higher than credit card transactions, I'd certainly expect the cryptocurrency costs to be higher.

I think the idea specifically with small retail transactions is that you don’t need all the fraud and consumer protections of the payment processors. Sort of just like paying in cash.

As for the rest - yes the idea is that the cost and speed of crypto and blockchain would need to be below the current system for this to work. AFAIK that is not the case yet.

As a consumer I don’t need protections, but as a vendor I would in these cases. Many businesses have moved away from cash because of loss, theft, and maybe counterfeits.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only actual use case I have heard of that makes sense is for transactions that involve no trust issues, such that you do not need all the bells and whistles of our current payment processing system. Eg - you could use crypto instead of your debit/credit card to buy coffee because you are getting the coffee then and there and won’t ever need to do a charge back. The idea is that crypto in that scenario could be cheaper for vendors and consumers compared to the high expense of card processing fees.

But AFAIK, the crypto “rails” are not developed enough to make that scenario into a reality because it takes so much longer to process a crypto transaction on the blockchain vs the Visa/MC system.

But yes, if crypto and blockchain can break the Visa/MC stranglehold on payment processing and lower the fees there could be a use case.

This argument has never made any sense to me. The inherent processing costs for credit card transactions are orders of magnitude lower than bitcoin transactions. Part of it is that recipients don't pay them- it is currently being paid through mining rewards and the rampant speculation. But the other part that you alluded to is that we're not getting some important things from bitcoin. Those credit card processing fees are paying for scale, speed, stability, and fraud/consumer protection. If you want those same characteristics from bitcoin, the processing fees will go up significantly. And because the inherent costs are higher than credit card transactions, I'd certainly expect the cryptocurrency costs to be higher.

I think the idea specifically with small retail transactions is that you don’t need all the fraud and consumer protections of the payment processors. Sort of just like paying in cash.

As for the rest - yes the idea is that the cost and speed of crypto and blockchain would need to be below the current system for this to work. AFAIK that is not the case yet.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only actual use case I have heard of that makes sense is for transactions that involve no trust issues, such that you do not need all the bells and whistles of our current payment processing system. Eg - you could use crypto instead of your debit/credit card to buy coffee because you are getting the coffee then and there and won’t ever need to do a charge back. The idea is that crypto in that scenario could be cheaper for vendors and consumers compared to the high expense of card processing fees.

But AFAIK, the crypto “rails” are not developed enough to make that scenario into a reality because it takes so much longer to process a crypto transaction on the blockchain vs the Visa/MC system.

But yes, if crypto and blockchain can break the Visa/MC stranglehold on payment processing and lower the fees there could be a use case.

This argument has never made any sense to me. The inherent processing costs for credit card transactions are orders of magnitude lower than bitcoin transactions. Part of it is that recipients don't pay them- it is currently being paid through mining rewards and the rampant speculation. But the other part that you alluded to is that we're not getting some important things from bitcoin. Those credit card processing fees are paying for scale, speed, stability, and fraud/consumer protection. If you want those same characteristics from bitcoin, the processing fees will go up significantly. And because the inherent costs are higher than credit card transactions, I'd certainly expect the cryptocurrency costs to be higher.

Anonymous wrote:The only actual use case I have heard of that makes sense is for transactions that involve no trust issues, such that you do not need all the bells and whistles of our current payment processing system. Eg - you could use crypto instead of your debit/credit card to buy coffee because you are getting the coffee then and there and won’t ever need to do a charge back. The idea is that crypto in that scenario could be cheaper for vendors and consumers compared to the high expense of card processing fees.

But AFAIK, the crypto “rails” are not developed enough to make that scenario into a reality because it takes so much longer to process a crypto transaction on the blockchain vs the Visa/MC system.

But yes, if crypto and blockchain can break the Visa/MC stranglehold on payment processing and lower the fees there could be a use case.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only actual use case I have heard of that makes sense is for transactions that involve no trust issues, such that you do not need all the bells and whistles of our current payment processing system. Eg - you could use crypto instead of your debit/credit card to buy coffee because you are getting the coffee then and there and won’t ever need to do a charge back. The idea is that crypto in that scenario could be cheaper for vendors and consumers compared to the high expense of card processing fees.

But AFAIK, the crypto “rails” are not developed enough to make that scenario into a reality because it takes so much longer to process a crypto transaction on the blockchain vs the Visa/MC system.

But yes, if crypto and blockchain can break the Visa/MC stranglehold on payment processing and lower the fees there could be a use case.

But as a vendor, I don’t want to accept payments that could halve between when coffee was poured and when it was drank!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://futurism.com/future-society/bitcoin-crashing-miners-unplugging-equipment

I thought the price automatically adjusts higher when there are fewer miners, or the solution gets easier using less electricity?

Ha ha where did you hear that?

DP. Yes, that's how bitcoin works. That is, the work to mine the next blocks gets easier if there are fewer miners.

Electricity is MUCH more expensive now, as is the hardware, will compute power eventually fall enough it would work on a phone for mining or is the base level algorithm still require enough horsepower that expensive electricity and hw could make it unsustainable?

No, the miners are concentrated in places with cheap access to electricity. Even then, you need specialized hardware to profit from mining.

AI data centers will be building there too and compete for that cheap power.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only actual use case I have heard of that makes sense is for transactions that involve no trust issues, such that you do not need all the bells and whistles of our current payment processing system. Eg - you could use crypto instead of your debit/credit card to buy coffee because you are getting the coffee then and there and won’t ever need to do a charge back. The idea is that crypto in that scenario could be cheaper for vendors and consumers compared to the high expense of card processing fees.

But AFAIK, the crypto “rails” are not developed enough to make that scenario into a reality because it takes so much longer to process a crypto transaction on the blockchain vs the Visa/MC system.

But yes, if crypto and blockchain can break the Visa/MC stranglehold on payment processing and lower the fees there could be a use case.

But as a vendor, I don’t want to accept payments that could halve between when coffee was poured and when it was drank!

Anonymous wrote:The only actual use case I have heard of that makes sense is for transactions that involve no trust issues, such that you do not need all the bells and whistles of our current payment processing system. Eg - you could use crypto instead of your debit/credit card to buy coffee because you are getting the coffee then and there and won’t ever need to do a charge back. The idea is that crypto in that scenario could be cheaper for vendors and consumers compared to the high expense of card processing fees.

But AFAIK, the crypto “rails” are not developed enough to make that scenario into a reality because it takes so much longer to process a crypto transaction on the blockchain vs the Visa/MC system.

But yes, if crypto and blockchain can break the Visa/MC stranglehold on payment processing and lower the fees there could be a use case.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://futurism.com/future-society/bitcoin-crashing-miners-unplugging-equipment

I thought the price automatically adjusts higher when there are fewer miners, or the solution gets easier using less electricity?

Ha ha where did you hear that?

DP. Yes, that's how bitcoin works. That is, the work to mine the next blocks gets easier if there are fewer miners.

Electricity is MUCH more expensive now, as is the hardware, will compute power eventually fall enough it would work on a phone for mining or is the base level algorithm still require enough horsepower that expensive electricity and hw could make it unsustainable?

No, the miners are concentrated in places with cheap access to electricity. Even then, you need specialized hardware to profit from mining.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://futurism.com/future-society/bitcoin-crashing-miners-unplugging-equipment

I thought the price automatically adjusts higher when there are fewer miners, or the solution gets easier using less electricity?

Ha ha where did you hear that?

Sorry I said price, but I meant payout to the miners, 2 BTC vs 1 BTC or something.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://futurism.com/future-society/bitcoin-crashing-miners-unplugging-equipment

I thought the price automatically adjusts higher when there are fewer miners, or the solution gets easier using less electricity?

Ha ha where did you hear that?

DP. Yes, that's how bitcoin works. That is, the work to mine the next blocks gets easier if there are fewer miners.

Electricity is MUCH more expensive now, as is the hardware, will compute power eventually fall enough it would work on a phone for mining or is the base level algorithm still require enough horsepower that expensive electricity and hw could make it unsustainable?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://futurism.com/future-society/bitcoin-crashing-miners-unplugging-equipment

I thought the price automatically adjusts higher when there are fewer miners, or the solution gets easier using less electricity?

Ha ha where did you hear that?