11, there is no way.

"No" is a complete sentence.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you have a reasonable rule in place. Why would you cave on this now?

How is it “reasonable”? It’s harming the child’s self expression!

In elementary school the teachers will subconsciously treat her differently, and not in a good way. In middle school, where half the girls wear makeup, it will not make much difference.

No, it sounds like some of the parents will by your post. Look, it’s your rule and you can do what you want. You don’t need our permission.

I’m a teacher and let my own kid color a chunk of her hair in 4th grade when she really wanted to. She tried a lot of neon colors that year and I helped her do it at home. It was just hair and would grow out. I wouldn’t care that much about eyeliner as long as it wasn’t too extreme. I think teachers are the type to judge less, not more. We see all types.

My foot. They are very judgemental, frequently judge by appearances, and yes, they will percieve a makeup wearing 5th grader differently from her peers if she is the only one in class wearing makeup. It's no secret that the girls in elementary school who get better treatment from teachers are the ones who appear more juvenile.

That's why I suggest waiting until middle school when it's not going to nake you stand out.

Not if her mom donates a lot of money to the school parent group. That's what happened at our elementary.

And this kid wasn't subtle at all

Teachers know which side of the bread is buttered.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you have a reasonable rule in place. Why would you cave on this now?

How is it “reasonable”? It’s harming the child’s self expression!

In elementary school the teachers will subconsciously treat her differently, and not in a good way. In middle school, where half the girls wear makeup, it will not make much difference.

No, it sounds like some of the parents will by your post. Look, it’s your rule and you can do what you want. You don’t need our permission.

I’m a teacher and let my own kid color a chunk of her hair in 4th grade when she really wanted to. She tried a lot of neon colors that year and I helped her do it at home. It was just hair and would grow out. I wouldn’t care that much about eyeliner as long as it wasn’t too extreme. I think teachers are the type to judge less, not more. We see all types.

My foot. They are very judgemental, frequently judge by appearances, and yes, they will percieve a makeup wearing 5th grader differently from her peers if she is the only one in class wearing makeup. It's no secret that the girls in elementary school who get better treatment from teachers are the ones who appear more juvenile.

That's why I suggest waiting until middle school when it's not going to nake you stand out.

Are you a teacher? I am. We can agree to disagree on this. The majority of teachers really don’t care about things like this.

You set a clear rule so stick with it. If you cave now, she will know that your rules are meaningless. Next time, think harder about the rules you set so can be confident in them.

This was the age where we'd buy makeup at the mall, apply it on the bus, and remove it once we came home to an empty house. If she really wants to experiment, I would let her and try to leverage a deal where she agrees not to wear it to school.

Anonymous wrote:It’s a rule. No makeup until my DD is 13. End of conversation! No exceptions.

However, DD (now 11) has been pushing really hard for me to let her buy eyeliner (with her own money). She wants “dramatic” black eyeliner. I of course am putting my foot down. However she insists that she wants to be “scene” (whatever that means) and that I’m not letting her express herself. Ugh. I don’t want to cave. Should I?

Why don't you know what that means? If you have an 11-year-old at max, you are probably mid-40s, and scene was definitely a thing when you were in your 20s, even if you didn't dress that way yourself. This makes you seem judgmental, controlling, and condescending towards your daughter, which speels larger issues for you and your relationship with her outside of this current situation. You freak out and put her down over small potatoes stuff like this, it's not likely she's going to come to you or hear you on larger issues.
I'm not saying you have to let her do the mascara, or she'll become an alcoholic felon who never lets you see the grandkids. I'm saying if you show interest in her and her feelings and interests, explain why you think she's too young still, but you can empathize with her wanting a different style, she's more likely to come to you and take your advice about the serious stuff, versus hide it or go tosomone else who may or may not give good advice.

firs though was"Oh 11 is so young!" But then I remembered how it felt to be a preteen/teen and have a mother who held fast to the rules she made before I was even a teen some of which were based on social conditioning from her childhood.

You certainly can hold fast to the rule of 13.
But you could also use this as an opportunity to build some currency with your daughter and get to know her better.

She wants to grow up a little and not be so much of a little kid not so unreasonable at 11. Why is she feeling this way? What is attracting her to scene culture and style. For the pp who thinks kids these daysa aren't into that your wrong theire's a whole revival of that style with a bit of genz/alpha twist.
There's probably room for compromise. And even if you elect not to compromise pease you this as a moment to bond with your daughter .

I’d buy her whatever make up she wants and tell her she’s only allowed to wear it at home- never school until she’s 13.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you have a reasonable rule in place. Why would you cave on this now?

How is it “reasonable”? It’s harming the child’s self expression!

In elementary school the teachers will subconsciously treat her differently, and not in a good way. In middle school, where half the girls wear makeup, it will not make much difference.

No, it sounds like some of the parents will by your post. Look, it’s your rule and you can do what you want. You don’t need our permission.

I’m a teacher and let my own kid color a chunk of her hair in 4th grade when she really wanted to. She tried a lot of neon colors that year and I helped her do it at home. It was just hair and would grow out. I wouldn’t care that much about eyeliner as long as it wasn’t too extreme. I think teachers are the type to judge less, not more. We see all types.

My foot. They are very judgemental, frequently judge by appearances, and yes, they will percieve a makeup wearing 5th grader differently from her peers if she is the only one in class wearing makeup. It's no secret that the girls in elementary school who get better treatment from teachers are the ones who appear more juvenile.

That's why I suggest waiting until middle school when it's not going to nake you stand out.

Anonymous wrote:Let her try mascara. It’s not hard looking like eyeliner can look on an 11 year old

I agree with this post. It will give her the bolder look that she’s going for. If you want you could try Kajal, which is a cleaner version of eyeliner. It can be used on the waterline so there isn’t really much of a difference with the way she looks, but it can be a solid compromise. Look for alternatives in this situation, don’t just give in to eyeliner if you have a hard set rule on 13.

This has to be a troll. No kid today says they want to be “scene.” That’s from the MySpace mall emo days.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not a hill to die on, and I promise you, you will have larger, more important battles coming.

What you will do is teach her to be sneaky: buy the eyeliner, put it on at school/at a friend's house and buy the make up removing wipes and take it off before she gets home. Little sneaky things turn into big sneaky things. Little lies become big lies and now she will be an expert at hiding things, because you taught her how over something as silly as eyeliner

I have a different take on the same thing. Stick with the no, but let her figure out how to do it at school and wipe it off before she comes home. Kids these days really suck at problem solving and mild rebellion. Don’t facilitate it, make her work for it.

I think I did read somewhere that it's good to have some rules that kids can safely rebel against and feel like they're getting away with something.

That’s so sad. Who is influencing her? Absolutely not, but this requires many conversations about makeup and beauty and the many ways that is defined. Also conversations about who or what is influencing this and why that might be happening.
I’d be concerned.

Anonymous wrote:This is not a hill to die on, and I promise you, you will have larger, more important battles coming.

What you will do is teach her to be sneaky: buy the eyeliner, put it on at school/at a friend's house and buy the make up removing wipes and take it off before she gets home. Little sneaky things turn into big sneaky things. Little lies become big lies and now she will be an expert at hiding things, because you taught her how over something as silly as eyeliner

I have a different take on the same thing. Stick with the no, but let her figure out how to do it at school and wipe it off before she comes home. Kids these days really suck at problem solving and mild rebellion. Don’t facilitate it, make her work for it.

You seem to be “putting your foot down” a lot on random meaningless issues.