Spare yourself. Divorce.

Stay married? Yes. Certainly.

Be a good spouse? No. Certainly not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Same. I thought I could just power through, but eventually his behavior got so bad that I couldn't stay quiet. The confrontation led to a hell I could have never anticipated. Truly a very dark time. He turned on me then and it was like I was a stranger... We'd been together for 25 years and here I was, like a stranger that he hated and had zero relationship with.

Everyone else thinks he's a great guy. They have no idea. I don't think you can understand until you've lived it. It's awful.

Yes, the same happened to me and them turning into a stranger is exactly how it feels. And finding out that they’ve always been that person deep down is terrifying and made me question everything I knew about myself and life.

My STBX truly hates me, but when I am rational these days (which is rare- getting divorced from someone like this is extraordinarily taxing physically, mentally and emotionally), I can see that I have nothing to do with his hatred. He hates himself and he hates the shame he feels about his shortcomings, some of which are just the normal imperfections of being human and some of which were nurtured by his family of origin, and he is desperate to put it on anyone else.

Yes! The hatred is directed outwardly at us. It's helped a lot to understand that even though my stbx despises everything about me now (I mean wtf...he was sending loving texts right up to the day before he did an absolute 180....) he hates himself the most. I don't think he'll ever be able to face himself. Sometimes I feel sorry for him that he is so deeply broken. But then he lobs another grenade. Sorry you're going through it, too. Working in therapy to understand why I was drawn to him has helped a lot.

Anonymous wrote:Same. I thought I could just power through, but eventually his behavior got so bad that I couldn't stay quiet. The confrontation led to a hell I could have never anticipated. Truly a very dark time. He turned on me then and it was like I was a stranger... We'd been together for 25 years and here I was, like a stranger that he hated and had zero relationship with.

Everyone else thinks he's a great guy. They have no idea. I don't think you can understand until you've lived it. It's awful.

Yes, the same happened to me and them turning into a stranger is exactly how it feels. And finding out that they’ve always been that person deep down is terrifying and made me question everything I knew about myself and life.

My STBX truly hates me, but when I am rational these days (which is rare- getting divorced from someone like this is extraordinarily taxing physically, mentally and emotionally), I can see that I have nothing to do with his hatred. He hates himself and he hates the shame he feels about his shortcomings, some of which are just the normal imperfections of being human and some of which were nurtured by his family of origin, and he is desperate to put it on anyone else.

Same. I thought I could just power through, but eventually his behavior got so bad that I couldn't stay quiet. The confrontation led to a hell I could have never anticipated. Truly a very dark time. He turned on me then and it was like I was a stranger... We'd been together for 25 years and here I was, like a stranger that he hated and had zero relationship with.

Everyone else thinks he's a great guy. They have no idea. I don't think you can understand until you've lived it. It's awful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are several types of narcissism, and I think you can live with people who have the neurotic (shy) kind - the ones who are not grandiose, don't seek drama or attention but are really insecure and feel a serious lack of confidence. It's not typically recognized as narcissism, but it's officially a form of the diagnosis.

I know several people living with that kind, and they're usually not too hard to live with. They need lots of reassurances.

Actually that is a true form of narcissism and much more dangerous to be in a relationship with than more obvious grandiose types. It’s called covert narcissism. And yes, from the outside they look meek or insecure or innocuous. On the inside it’s terrifying, because the second you take your foot of the gas of building them up and putting them on a pedestal and telling them they’re the best, they will turn on you.

Here’s a quick description:

“ A covert narcissist (also known as vulnerable narcissist) falls into a narcissistic personality disorder subtype that combines traits like self-centeredness and manipulative behavior with an introverted demeanor. Because covert narcissists seem so reserved or even modest, it can be easy to overlook their more problematic traits.”

https://www.helpguide.org/mental-health/personality-disorders/covert-narcissism

God. This x 1000000. When I confronted my mild-mannered, quiet husband about his affair, I could not have imagined the hell that he then unleashed. It was terrifying and absolutely rattled me until a psychiatric nurse, friend of a friend, heard my story and suggested I read about covert narcissism. Putting a name to the behavior and personality traits has been really helpful in trying to navigate this divorce. As has therapy with someone who understands this kind of NPD. Once he was unmasked he decided he was out for blood. I'm still fielding questions from people who knew him who know how he has behaved since he initiated the divorce because they don't understand how such a "good guy" could have become so unhinged. I don't feel I owe anyone an explanation but he has strewn wreckage far and wide. All those years he was just sitting quietly in the corner, taking notes, seething. I ignored the red flags. That's on me. But in hindsight OMG they were there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No.

I'm starting to push back though because my life is a dumpster fire how much worse can it get? I mean at this point I've given up caring if we make it or not. I've totally given up.

Please before you do that, I beg you to make sure you have passwords and screenshots of every financial account, video the interior contents of your house, have cash in an account in your name only, and have a safety plan for you and your kids. And do 2-3 attorney consults now, not later, just to understand where you stand.

Valuable advice +1

Anonymous wrote:No.

I'm starting to push back though because my life is a dumpster fire how much worse can it get? I mean at this point I've given up caring if we make it or not. I've totally given up.

Please before you do that, I beg you to make sure you have passwords and screenshots of every financial account, video the interior contents of your house, have cash in an account in your name only, and have a safety plan for you and your kids. And do 2-3 attorney consults now, not later, just to understand where you stand.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The mask always drops.

What does this mean?

NP and it means eventually they get too tired, too comfortable, or too triggered to keep up appearances. They can do anything from lashing out in anger or disappearing in a quiet rage.

In my case, my supposedly mild-mannered (to outsiders) exDH got frustrated with one of our kids saying out loud something that exDH did to one of their possessions. Think something simple like shrinking a favorite sweater. To exDH, that was the straw that broke the camel’s back. He had messed up some personal finance stuff and had bungled a scheduling thing at work. He couldn’t handle what he interpreted as a little kid telling him he was bad at life. In reality it was a kid saying “dad, you shrunk my sweater.”

Anyway, he exploded in a verbal rage at DC and stormed out of the house and disappeared for 3 days. And that began our separation and divorce.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The mask always drops.

What does this mean?

It means that their amazing “love bombing” and concern for your every need are just part of a mask to their self-centered selves. You think you’re dealing with one person, and then “the mask drops” and you realized you’re with someone who really isn’t capable of caring for anyone else but themselves.

No.

I'm starting to push back though because my life is a dumpster fire how much worse can it get? I mean at this point I've given up caring if we make it or not. I've totally given up.

Anonymous wrote:The mask always drops.

What does this mean?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are several types of narcissism, and I think you can live with people who have the neurotic (shy) kind - the ones who are not grandiose, don't seek drama or attention but are really insecure and feel a serious lack of confidence. It's not typically recognized as narcissism, but it's officially a form of the diagnosis.

I know several people living with that kind, and they're usually not too hard to live with. They need lots of reassurances.

Actually that is a true form of narcissism and much more dangerous to be in a relationship with than more obvious grandiose types. It’s called covert narcissism. And yes, from the outside they look meek or insecure or innocuous. On the inside it’s terrifying, because the second you take your foot of the gas of building them up and putting them on a pedestal and telling them they’re the best, they will turn on you.

Here’s a quick description:

“ A covert narcissist (also known as vulnerable narcissist) falls into a narcissistic personality disorder subtype that combines traits like self-centeredness and manipulative behavior with an introverted demeanor. Because covert narcissists seem so reserved or even modest, it can be easy to overlook their more problematic traits.”

https://www.helpguide.org/mental-health/personality-disorders/covert-narcissism

PP you replied to. I guess none of the people I know have that severe a form. None of them have "turned" on anyone.

Do you know them or the people in the relationship with them?

They are very motivated to keep up appearances to “outsiders.” Those in intimate relationships with them can be the ones who are being emotionally abused and controlled or the ones who are working overtime to prop them up. If you find yourself in acquaintance or friend or professional relationships with these kinds of people, beware, it is likely that you’re a highly empathic person who they’ve subconsciously or intentionally chosen to align themselves with. Beware of things like the silent treatment, sulking, withholding information, or deflecting blame, especially in a professional environment.

I stayed 25 years. There were good times and bad times and I sucked it up thinking it was better than what he would do to me if I left. When I finally left I can only say I’m glad I “stayed for the kids”. I now see what he’s capable of and it’s terrible. He would have hurt the kids just to hurt me. He’s doing it now but at least they are adults and can get away.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are several types of narcissism, and I think you can live with people who have the neurotic (shy) kind - the ones who are not grandiose, don't seek drama or attention but are really insecure and feel a serious lack of confidence. It's not typically recognized as narcissism, but it's officially a form of the diagnosis.

I know several people living with that kind, and they're usually not too hard to live with. They need lots of reassurances.

Actually that is a true form of narcissism and much more dangerous to be in a relationship with than more obvious grandiose types. It’s called covert narcissism. And yes, from the outside they look meek or insecure or innocuous. On the inside it’s terrifying, because the second you take your foot of the gas of building them up and putting them on a pedestal and telling them they’re the best, they will turn on you.

Here’s a quick description:

“ A covert narcissist (also known as vulnerable narcissist) falls into a narcissistic personality disorder subtype that combines traits like self-centeredness and manipulative behavior with an introverted demeanor. Because covert narcissists seem so reserved or even modest, it can be easy to overlook their more problematic traits.”

https://www.helpguide.org/mental-health/personality-disorders/covert-narcissism

PP you replied to. I guess none of the people I know have that severe a form. None of them have "turned" on anyone.