Sometimes I find people calling others toxic are actually the toxic ones (not to get too DARVO about it)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know one womens group that doesn’t eventually break up or splinter, for various reasons.

Even if they get together on occasion they are one big happy organism feeding positively off each other. They are many groups of 2 or 3 loosely connected to others.

Also friendship wax and wane that is life.

How do you get past 25 years old and not understand this.

Yeah. I kind of thought she really shot herself in the foot here by breaking off with every member of the group. She should have just spent more time with the people she got along with and less time with the larger group.

It depends on the group dynamics. Reading between the lines, I think this group probably had a small number of dominant women who everyone in the group wanted to hang out with and that the bonds between other women were weaker. I've been around a group like this in a workplace and yes, it's a toxic dynamic. Very believable this would happen in a group of Hollywood moms because you know some of those women are more famous, richer, married to more famous or richer men, or in the midst of higher levels in their careers. Even if no one talks about it, it's going to impact how people see each other and who has more power in the group. The fact that these women were posting a lot of these outings on their public social media accounts, where not only other friends but also fans and media will see it, likely made this dynamic way worse -- posting a photo from your birthday party takes on whole new levels of clout if Mandy Moore or Hillary Duff is in the photo and commenting and liking it. It has tangible benefits to people and can be a way to build up a fan following and could lead to more work or better projects. It's gross that this is a thing but Hollywood is pretty gross sometimes.

Very likely that Ashley didn't have the same level of clout as others in the group, this led to her being left off invites while other famous members of the group were probably never left off invites, and this becomes an insult not just to Ashley as a friend, but to her career or her status within their industry. It really is a toxic dynamic because ultimately the friendships aren't based on real kinship and supporting each other, but become this cycle of clout chasing and people using their associations with certain members of the group to advance themselves socially and professionally. Not all friend groups are like this but it's very believable this particular group was like this, especially if they were all posting this stuff to their public social media.

This is all such a good point.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know one womens group that doesn’t eventually break up or splinter, for various reasons.

Even if they get together on occasion they are one big happy organism feeding positively off each other. They are many groups of 2 or 3 loosely connected to others.

Also friendship wax and wane that is life.

How do you get past 25 years old and not understand this.

Yeah. I kind of thought she really shot herself in the foot here by breaking off with every member of the group. She should have just spent more time with the people she got along with and less time with the larger group.

It’s weird to be half in and half out with a group. Better to have a clean break.

I’m going to say that you know more about this toxic mom-group stuff than I do.

Or maybe you do because why should she spend time with a larger group who generally excludes her and doesn’t invite her? That doesn’t sound like much fun.

No. It doesn’t. But someone sent her flowers and wants to be her friend. It’s better to have one friend than no friends.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I got from that is that social media caused all the toxicity. Without Instagram she would have no idea who was hanging with who and that she wasn't invited. And basically all the anxiety I have with other women also stems from some variation of this: "there they are, all hanging out and didn't invite me. What did I do wrong?"
I hate it so much. Currently dreading logging onto Facebook to post family pictures my mother keep hounding me about because I know I'll see something like this.

That certainly makes it easier to find out. But even in the old days, it would usually get back to someone that a gathering was planned or took place without them. The social dynamics of a large group based on loose connections can be weird, and not being invited doesn't always mean you did something wrong.

In the old days it was considered the height of poor manners to talk about a party to someone who wasn't invited. If it got back to someone it was because someone screwed up. Nowadays a party isn't really a party if pictures of all the guests aren't posted for the world to peruse.

Not where I came from. You learned early that sometimes there are parties and you won’t be included. Maybe it’s small, maybe it’s family, there are many reasons.

It’s toxic to teach your children to kept secrets and walk in egg shells to control others feelings.

Teach them not everything is about them and have many and diverse friends groups.

I'm not sure why you're referring to children. The article was about adult women. And I'm not going to waver that it's rude to post every "mom's night out" to an audience that includes people who for whatever reason may feel that they warranted an invitation. No one is impressed and some people are hurt. There's literally no upside. Send the photos to the women who were present.

+1 on posting the photos. It's cringe behavior that I will admit to having done when I was younger. People do it to project a certain image of themselves, and potentially also to make people jealous. The more secure I am in myself, the less I feel the need to do this. Even now, when I feel the urge to post a photo like this, I recognize it's usually an expression of insecurity.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know one womens group that doesn’t eventually break up or splinter, for various reasons.

Even if they get together on occasion they are one big happy organism feeding positively off each other. They are many groups of 2 or 3 loosely connected to others.

Also friendship wax and wane that is life.

How do you get past 25 years old and not understand this.

Yeah. I kind of thought she really shot herself in the foot here by breaking off with every member of the group. She should have just spent more time with the people she got along with and less time with the larger group.

It’s weird to be half in and half out with a group. Better to have a clean break.

I’m going to say that you know more about this toxic mom-group stuff than I do.

Or maybe you do because why should she spend time with a larger group who generally excludes her and doesn’t invite her? That doesn’t sound like much fun.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know one womens group that doesn’t eventually break up or splinter, for various reasons.

Even if they get together on occasion they are one big happy organism feeding positively off each other. They are many groups of 2 or 3 loosely connected to others.

Also friendship wax and wane that is life.

How do you get past 25 years old and not understand this.

Yeah. I kind of thought she really shot herself in the foot here by breaking off with every member of the group. She should have just spent more time with the people she got along with and less time with the larger group.

It depends on the group dynamics. Reading between the lines, I think this group probably had a small number of dominant women who everyone in the group wanted to hang out with and that the bonds between other women were weaker. I've been around a group like this in a workplace and yes, it's a toxic dynamic. Very believable this would happen in a group of Hollywood moms because you know some of those women are more famous, richer, married to more famous or richer men, or in the midst of higher levels in their careers. Even if no one talks about it, it's going to impact how people see each other and who has more power in the group. The fact that these women were posting a lot of these outings on their public social media accounts, where not only other friends but also fans and media will see it, likely made this dynamic way worse -- posting a photo from your birthday party takes on whole new levels of clout if Mandy Moore or Hillary Duff is in the photo and commenting and liking it. It has tangible benefits to people and can be a way to build up a fan following and could lead to more work or better projects. It's gross that this is a thing but Hollywood is pretty gross sometimes.

Very likely that Ashley didn't have the same level of clout as others in the group, this led to her being left off invites while other famous members of the group were probably never left off invites, and this becomes an insult not just to Ashley as a friend, but to her career or her status within their industry. It really is a toxic dynamic because ultimately the friendships aren't based on real kinship and supporting each other, but become this cycle of clout chasing and people using their associations with certain members of the group to advance themselves socially and professionally. Not all friend groups are like this but it's very believable this particular group was like this, especially if they were all posting this stuff to their public social media.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know one womens group that doesn’t eventually break up or splinter, for various reasons.

Even if they get together on occasion they are one big happy organism feeding positively off each other. They are many groups of 2 or 3 loosely connected to others.

Also friendship wax and wane that is life.

How do you get past 25 years old and not understand this.

Yeah. I kind of thought she really shot herself in the foot here by breaking off with every member of the group. She should have just spent more time with the people she got along with and less time with the larger group.

It’s weird to be half in and half out with a group. Better to have a clean break.

I’m going to say that you know more about this toxic mom-group stuff than I do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I got from that is that social media caused all the toxicity. Without Instagram she would have no idea who was hanging with who and that she wasn't invited. And basically all the anxiety I have with other women also stems from some variation of this: "there they are, all hanging out and didn't invite me. What did I do wrong?"
I hate it so much. Currently dreading logging onto Facebook to post family pictures my mother keep hounding me about because I know I'll see something like this.

That certainly makes it easier to find out. But even in the old days, it would usually get back to someone that a gathering was planned or took place without them. The social dynamics of a large group based on loose connections can be weird, and not being invited doesn't always mean you did something wrong.

In the old days it was considered the height of poor manners to talk about a party to someone who wasn't invited. If it got back to someone it was because someone screwed up. Nowadays a party isn't really a party if pictures of all the guests aren't posted for the world to peruse.

Not where I came from. You learned early that sometimes there are parties and you won’t be included. Maybe it’s small, maybe it’s family, there are many reasons.

It’s toxic to teach your children to kept secrets and walk in egg shells to control others feelings.

Teach them not everything is about them and have many and diverse friends groups.

I'm not sure why you're referring to children. The article was about adult women. And I'm not going to waver that it's rude to post every "moms night out" to an audience that includes people who for whatever reason may feel that they warranted an invitation. No one is impressed and some people are hurt. There's literally no upside. Send the photos to the women who were present.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know one womens group that doesn’t eventually break up or splinter, for various reasons.

Even if they get together on occasion they are one big happy organism feeding positively off each other. They are many groups of 2 or 3 loosely connected to others.

Also friendship wax and wane that is life.

How do you get past 25 years old and not understand this.

Yeah. I kind of thought she really shot herself in the foot here by breaking off with every member of the group. She should have just spent more time with the people she got along with and less time with the larger group.

It’s weird to be half in and half out with a group. Better to have a clean break.

Anonymous wrote:I don't know one womens group that doesn’t eventually break up or splinter, for various reasons.

Even if they get together on occasion they are one big happy organism feeding positively off each other. They are many groups of 2 or 3 loosely connected to others.

Also friendship wax and wane that is life.

How do you get past 25 years old and not understand this.

Yeah. I kind of thought she really shot herself in the foot here by breaking off with every member of the group. She should have just spent more time with the people she got along with and less time with the larger group.

Anonymous wrote:What I got from that is that social media caused all the toxicity. Without Instagram she would have no idea who was hanging with who and that she wasn't invited. And basically all the anxiety I have with other women also stems from some variation of this: "there they are, all hanging out and didn't invite me. What did I do wrong?"
I hate it so much. Currently dreading logging onto Facebook to post family pictures my mother keep hounding me about because I know I'll see something like this.

OP here and I completely agree. It's the combo of having this cohesive group AND posting all your activities online. It just makes it really obvious who is on the inside and who isn't.

It just comes across to me as someone who got used to being famous, her star faded, so she searched around for something she could write about that would draw attention to her. And when I look at her work, she's done only two projects since 2020. So that checks out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I got from that is that social media caused all the toxicity. Without Instagram she would have no idea who was hanging with who and that she wasn't invited. And basically all the anxiety I have with other women also stems from some variation of this: "there they are, all hanging out and didn't invite me. What did I do wrong?"
I hate it so much. Currently dreading logging onto Facebook to post family pictures my mother keep hounding me about because I know I'll see something like this.

That certainly makes it easier to find out. But even in the old days, it would usually get back to someone that a gathering was planned or took place without them. The social dynamics of a large group based on loose connections can be weird, and not being invited doesn't always mean you did something wrong.

In the old days it was considered the height of poor manners to talk about a party to someone who wasn't invited. If it got back to someone it was because someone screwed up. Nowadays a party isn't really a party if pictures of all the guests aren't posted for the world to peruse.

Not where I came from. You learned early that sometimes there are parties and you won’t be included. Maybe it’s small, maybe it’s family, there are many reasons.

It’s toxic to teach your children to kept secrets and walk in egg shells to control others feelings.

Teach them not everything is about them and have many and diverse friends groups.

I don't know one womens group that doesn’t eventually break up or splinter, for various reasons.

Even if they get together on occasion they are one big happy organism feeding positively off each other. They are many groups of 2 or 3 loosely connected to others.

Also friendship wax and wane that is life.

How do you get past 25 years old and not understand this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I got from that is that social media caused all the toxicity. Without Instagram she would have no idea who was hanging with who and that she wasn't invited. And basically all the anxiety I have with other women also stems from some variation of this: "there they are, all hanging out and didn't invite me. What did I do wrong?"
I hate it so much. Currently dreading logging onto Facebook to post family pictures my mother keep hounding me about because I know I'll see something like this.

That certainly makes it easier to find out. But even in the old days, it would usually get back to someone that a gathering was planned or took place without them. The social dynamics of a large group based on loose connections can be weird, and not being invited doesn't always mean you did something wrong.

In the old days it was considered the height of poor manners to talk about a party to someone who wasn't invited. If it got back to someone it was because someone screwed up. Nowadays a party isn't really a party if pictures of all the guests aren't posted for the world to peruse.