Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:does anyone have info about how good these programs are. My nephew is engineering CS and interested in M&T and my son is interetsed in Huntsman program next year. They are juniors in MCPS magnet. Do you know anyone who has done these, how competetive are these ( presumably extremely competetive comparable to HYPMS ) and how are the outcomes. are they worth the 90K tag? shud they apply to Upenn CAS and SEAS instead for better chances of admit

M&T and Huntsman should NOT be part of your consideration. You can apply to them, don't count on it too much.

These are dual degree programs. Fine if you got in. But you can double major at anything you want once you got in Penn, which is the critical part. You can double major at SEAS and CAS for example. I doubt it if there is any difference from these formal dual degree programs. Chill.

CAS plus SEAS is the Viper dual degree program. Yes you could apply to do an uncoordinated dual with each but it is extremely difficult and more classes /more work than the Viper program and none of the perks. Seas and wharton uncoordinated is more classes than M&T and so on for the other Dual degrees LSM and Huntsman.
The structured dual degree programs are very difficult to get admitted to but for those that do, it is completed in 4 years plus it comes with funding and other perks (varies depending on the Dual) .
The Stem duals have high numbers of international students, many on financial aid: these are some of the brightest stem students in the world.

Penn seas as a single degree has an overall admit rate of 3% or just below. The duals that are a part of SEAS are even more competitive.
Just look at these boards: everyone and their stray cat wants Engineering these days, especially top students who target T10/elite types.
Penn Seas alone will get a student anywhere they want to go if they do not get Viper or M&T.

Is Penn Seas a small program? Its acceptance rate is lower than the highest ranked engineering schools: MIT, Stanford.

SEAS is small, ~200, 250 kids per year.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:does anyone have info about how good these programs are. My nephew is engineering CS and interested in M&T and my son is interetsed in Huntsman program next year. They are juniors in MCPS magnet. Do you know anyone who has done these, how competetive are these ( presumably extremely competetive comparable to HYPMS ) and how are the outcomes. are they worth the 90K tag? shud they apply to Upenn CAS and SEAS instead for better chances of admit

M&T and Huntsman should NOT be part of your consideration. You can apply to them, don't count on it too much.

These are dual degree programs. Fine if you got in. But you can double major at anything you want once you got in Penn, which is the critical part. You can double major at SEAS and CAS for example. I doubt it if there is any difference from these formal dual degree programs. Chill.

CAS plus SEAS is the Viper dual degree program. Yes you could apply to do an uncoordinated dual with each but it is extremely difficult and more classes /more work than the Viper program and none of the perks. Seas and wharton uncoordinated is more classes than M&T and so on for the other Dual degrees LSM and Huntsman.
The structured dual degree programs are very difficult to get admitted to but for those that do, it is completed in 4 years plus it comes with funding and other perks (varies depending on the Dual) .
The Stem duals have high numbers of international students, many on financial aid: these are some of the brightest stem students in the world.

Penn seas as a single degree has an overall admit rate of 3% or just below. The duals that are a part of SEAS are even more competitive.
Just look at these boards: everyone and their stray cat wants Engineering these days, especially top students who target T10/elite types.
Penn Seas alone will get a student anywhere they want to go if they do not get Viper or M&T.

Is Penn Seas a small program? Its acceptance rate is lower than the highest ranked engineering schools: MIT, Stanford.

Anonymous wrote:Why are most of the students in these programs Chinese and Indian? It makes the programs very isolating if you are not a part of their cliques.

This kind of remark gets made over and over again. I think the premise needs to be challenged even though I don't know the demographics of these programs.

I'm a white woman who has Chinese work friends because my company does business with China. My white dad was a university employee and he has two immigrant Chinese former grad student families that he's been regularly in touch with. One of these families made him a godfather of their oldest daughter (Stanford grad now) and named their son after him.

I'm going to make a few points here.

1) People know when others are wary or not very accepting of them. That's basic body language.

2) Kids who have been pushed by their parents and also have high skill levels tend to have some issues with less serious students or students with skill gaps. I have a white on white example of this in my own background where I got roasted by a Ukrainian friend with a better knowledge of statistics and probability. Kids who make it to America from other countries often have been drilled very thoroughly. Know your stuff.

3) You need to be open-minded about food. I am willing to go to whatever restaurants and try things that may not be to my taste. I do a lot of international work and had international grad student friends. People notice when you won't try their food or obviously have issues with it (smell, etc.).

4) You need to understand/be comfortable with people shifting in and out of their native language in front of you. That's a dynamic where you just need to trust that people have reasons for doing that that are neutral or they need to do it for their own comfort. It's not rude unless they are intentionally concealing something from you. A lot of Americans lack multicultural/multilingual environment experience that gives them trust and comfort in these situations. It's necessary at times to "assume goodness" or simply politely ask to be included in the conversation.

Cliques form in programs because people aren't trying to be friendly and open-minded and interested in others who are different from them. It's basic human nature. It's not race-specific.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:does anyone have info about how good these programs are. My nephew is engineering CS and interested in M&T and my son is interetsed in Huntsman program next year. They are juniors in MCPS magnet. Do you know anyone who has done these, how competetive are these ( presumably extremely competetive comparable to HYPMS ) and how are the outcomes. are they worth the 90K tag? shud they apply to Upenn CAS and SEAS instead for better chances of admit

M&T and Huntsman should NOT be part of your consideration. You can apply to them, don't count on it too much.

These are dual degree programs. Fine if you got in. But you can double major at anything you want once you got in Penn, which is the critical part. You can double major at SEAS and CAS for example. I doubt it if there is any difference from these formal dual degree programs. Chill.

You can't double major across schools at Penn, you have to do the dual degree, and be admitted to the 2nd school. It is a competitive process to be admitted as a student into Wharton or SEAS even once you are on campus. You don't have to do the named programs like M&T or Huntsman, but they actually make graduating easier because of the course scheduling. If you try to do it on your own, each school has their own rigorous core requirements, so plan to take 5+ years to finish.

You are right.

What I meant is that you can easily double major at CAS: Computer Science at CAS + Econ at CAS.
Biological Science + Econ at CAS.
etc.

CAS itself offers tons of majors for the purpose of double major. There is no need to do it across different schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:does anyone have info about how good these programs are. My nephew is engineering CS and interested in M&T and my son is interetsed in Huntsman program next year. They are juniors in MCPS magnet. Do you know anyone who has done these, how competetive are these ( presumably extremely competetive comparable to HYPMS ) and how are the outcomes. are they worth the 90K tag? shud they apply to Upenn CAS and SEAS instead for better chances of admit

M&T and Huntsman should NOT be part of your consideration. You can apply to them, don't count on it too much.

These are dual degree programs. Fine if you got in. But you can double major at anything you want once you got in Penn, which is the critical part. You can double major at SEAS and CAS for example. I doubt it if there is any difference from these formal dual degree programs. Chill.

CAS plus SEAS is the Viper dual degree program. Yes you could apply to do an uncoordinated dual with each but it is extremely difficult and more classes /more work than the Viper program and none of the perks. Seas and wharton uncoordinated is more classes than M&T and so on for the other Dual degrees LSM and Huntsman.
The structured dual degree programs are very difficult to get admitted to but for those that do, it is completed in 4 years plus it comes with funding and other perks (varies depending on the Dual) .
The Stem duals have high numbers of international students, many on financial aid: these are some of the brightest stem students in the world.

Penn seas as a single degree has an overall admit rate of 3% or just below. The duals that are a part of SEAS are even more competitive.
Just look at these boards: everyone and their stray cat wants Engineering these days, especially top students who target T10/elite types.
Penn Seas alone will get a student anywhere they want to go if they do not get Viper or M&T.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:does anyone have info about how good these programs are. My nephew is engineering CS and interested in M&T and my son is interetsed in Huntsman program next year. They are juniors in MCPS magnet. Do you know anyone who has done these, how competetive are these ( presumably extremely competetive comparable to HYPMS ) and how are the outcomes. are they worth the 90K tag? shud they apply to Upenn CAS and SEAS instead for better chances of admit

M&T and Huntsman should NOT be part of your consideration. You can apply to them, don't count on it too much.

These are dual degree programs. Fine if you got in. But you can double major at anything you want once you got in Penn, which is the critical part. You can double major at SEAS and CAS for example. I doubt it if there is any difference from these formal dual degree programs. Chill.

You can't double major across schools at Penn, you have to do the dual degree, and be admitted to the 2nd school. It is a competitive process to be admitted as a student into Wharton or SEAS even once you are on campus. You don't have to do the named programs like M&T or Huntsman, but they actually make graduating easier because of the course scheduling. If you try to do it on your own, each school has their own rigorous core requirements, so plan to take 5+ years to finish.

Why are most of the students in these programs Chinese and Indian? It makes the programs very isolating if you are not a part of their cliques.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:does anyone have info about how good these programs are. My nephew is engineering CS and interested in M&T and my son is interetsed in Huntsman program next year. They are juniors in MCPS magnet. Do you know anyone who has done these, how competetive are these ( presumably extremely competetive comparable to HYPMS ) and how are the outcomes. are they worth the 90K tag? shud they apply to Upenn CAS and SEAS instead for better chances of admit

I appreciate that you are trying to do what is best for your family and are seeking information. You have to start somewhere and this is as good a place as any. But you sound like you really know very little and need to start from scratch. I am not saying that to be nasty - again commending you for knowing what you don't know and seeking information. Unfortunately, here at DCUM you will have to sort through a lot of trash to cultivate the decent comments so be careful.

Bottom line is that this program is extremely prestigious, competitive and yields really strong outcomes. Others can nitpick about exactly how strong, but bottom line is that graduates are very desirable in a number of different fields - not worth getting in the weeds on that. It is harder to get into than other parts of Penn so you should seek advice from a good guidance counselor (hopefully they have these at a magnet school) and/or college counselor about the odds, but even for the most "perfect" applicant it is not easy.

As to whether it is worth the money, that is a very personal decision. There is a long thread here with lots of arguments on the topic. There is a good chance that if your family member graduates, they will likely get a pretty high paying job so the ROI should be good. But there are no guarantees of that. And much of the analysis depends on your own financial situation, what the alternatives are, and the costs of those alternatives.

I hope this is helpful. Good luck. Again, be careful here. There are some great posters but many who are not at all helpful and just muddy the water.

I highlighted the wheat in the above excessively verbose comment. Ignore the rest.

NP: You don't agree with the part about seeking help from a guidance counselor or other professional rather than the experts at DCUM? No need to be nasty. Agree it was a bit long-winded but it was still more informative than 99% of the other posts here. Cheer up.

Your post was too verbose & too negative. Try to be more concise.

You offered some solid advice, but chose to dilute it & to pollute it with unnecessary remarks maligning other well-intentioned posters.

I'm a new poster. And who declared you editor in chief? I agree with them that you need to be very careful around here as there is a lot of garbage that you have to sort through. Let's stay on message here and try to help this person. Even if you are somewhat correct.

Whew ! Just did that reading your post.

It’s impossible almost to get in these. So forget these , but if you want to take chances go ed and if you get in, you will just be very lucky

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:does anyone have info about how good these programs are. My nephew is engineering CS and interested in M&T and my son is interetsed in Huntsman program next year. They are juniors in MCPS magnet. Do you know anyone who has done these, how competetive are these ( presumably extremely competetive comparable to HYPMS ) and how are the outcomes. are they worth the 90K tag? shud they apply to Upenn CAS and SEAS instead for better chances of admit

I appreciate that you are trying to do what is best for your family and are seeking information. You have to start somewhere and this is as good a place as any. But you sound like you really know very little and need to start from scratch. I am not saying that to be nasty - again commending you for knowing what you don't know and seeking information. Unfortunately, here at DCUM you will have to sort through a lot of trash to cultivate the decent comments so be careful.

Bottom line is that this program is extremely prestigious, competitive and yields really strong outcomes. Others can nitpick about exactly how strong, but bottom line is that graduates are very desirable in a number of different fields - not worth getting in the weeds on that. It is harder to get into than other parts of Penn so you should seek advice from a good guidance counselor (hopefully they have these at a magnet school) and/or college counselor about the odds, but even for the most "perfect" applicant it is not easy.

As to whether it is worth the money, that is a very personal decision. There is a long thread here with lots of arguments on the topic. There is a good chance that if your family member graduates, they will likely get a pretty high paying job so the ROI should be good. But there are no guarantees of that. And much of the analysis depends on your own financial situation, what the alternatives are, and the costs of those alternatives.

I hope this is helpful. Good luck. Again, be careful here. There are some great posters but many who are not at all helpful and just muddy the water.

I highlighted the wheat in the above excessively verbose comment. Ignore the rest.

NP: You don't agree with the part about seeking help from a guidance counselor or other professional rather than the experts at DCUM? No need to be nasty. Agree it was a bit long-winded but it was still more informative than 99% of the other posts here. Cheer up.

Your post was too verbose & too negative. Try to be more concise.

You offered some solid advice, but chose to dilute it & to pollute it with unnecessary remarks maligning other well-intentioned posters.

I'm a new poster. And who declared you editor in chief? I agree with them that you need to be very careful around here as there is a lot of garbage that you have to sort through. Let's stay on message here and try to help this person. Even if you are somewhat correct.

Anonymous wrote:does anyone have info about how good these programs are. My nephew is engineering CS and interested in M&T and my son is interetsed in Huntsman program next year. They are juniors in MCPS magnet. Do you know anyone who has done these, how competetive are these ( presumably extremely competetive comparable to HYPMS ) and how are the outcomes. are they worth the 90K tag? shud they apply to Upenn CAS and SEAS instead for better chances of admit

M&T and Huntsman should NOT be part of your consideration. You can apply to them, don't count on it too much.

These are dual degree programs. Fine if you got in. But you can double major at anything you want once you got in Penn, which is the critical part. You can double major at SEAS and CAS for example. I doubt it if there is any difference from these formal dual degree programs. Chill.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:does anyone have info about how good these programs are. My nephew is engineering CS and interested in M&T and my son is interetsed in Huntsman program next year. They are juniors in MCPS magnet. Do you know anyone who has done these, how competetive are these ( presumably extremely competetive comparable to HYPMS ) and how are the outcomes. are they worth the 90K tag? shud they apply to Upenn CAS and SEAS instead for better chances of admit

I appreciate that you are trying to do what is best for your family and are seeking information. You have to start somewhere and this is as good a place as any. But you sound like you really know very little and need to start from scratch. I am not saying that to be nasty - again commending you for knowing what you don't know and seeking information. Unfortunately, here at DCUM you will have to sort through a lot of trash to cultivate the decent comments so be careful.

Bottom line is that this program is extremely prestigious, competitive and yields really strong outcomes. Others can nitpick about exactly how strong, but bottom line is that graduates are very desirable in a number of different fields - not worth getting in the weeds on that. It is harder to get into than other parts of Penn so you should seek advice from a good guidance counselor (hopefully they have these at a magnet school) and/or college counselor about the odds, but even for the most "perfect" applicant it is not easy.

As to whether it is worth the money, that is a very personal decision. There is a long thread here with lots of arguments on the topic. There is a good chance that if your family member graduates, they will likely get a pretty high paying job so the ROI should be good. But there are no guarantees of that. And much of the analysis depends on your own financial situation, what the alternatives are, and the costs of those alternatives.

I hope this is helpful. Good luck. Again, be careful here. There are some great posters but many who are not at all helpful and just muddy the water.

I highlighted the wheat in the above excessively verbose comment. Ignore the rest.

NP: You don't agree with the part about seeking help from a guidance counselor or other professional rather than the experts at DCUM? No need to be nasty. Agree it was a bit long-winded but it was still more informative than 99% of the other posts here. Cheer up.

I do not agree because that poster's point was to consult with such folks in order to assess the odds of being admitted to the program. Ignore that advice if you truly want the opportunity.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:does anyone have info about how good these programs are. My nephew is engineering CS and interested in M&T and my son is interetsed in Huntsman program next year. They are juniors in MCPS magnet. Do you know anyone who has done these, how competetive are these ( presumably extremely competetive comparable to HYPMS ) and how are the outcomes. are they worth the 90K tag? shud they apply to Upenn CAS and SEAS instead for better chances of admit

I appreciate that you are trying to do what is best for your family and are seeking information. You have to start somewhere and this is as good a place as any. But you sound like you really know very little and need to start from scratch. I am not saying that to be nasty - again commending you for knowing what you don't know and seeking information. Unfortunately, here at DCUM you will have to sort through a lot of trash to cultivate the decent comments so be careful.

Bottom line is that this program is extremely prestigious, competitive and yields really strong outcomes. Others can nitpick about exactly how strong, but bottom line is that graduates are very desirable in a number of different fields - not worth getting in the weeds on that. It is harder to get into than other parts of Penn so you should seek advice from a good guidance counselor (hopefully they have these at a magnet school) and/or college counselor about the odds, but even for the most "perfect" applicant it is not easy.

As to whether it is worth the money, that is a very personal decision. There is a long thread here with lots of arguments on the topic. There is a good chance that if your family member graduates, they will likely get a pretty high paying job so the ROI should be good. But there are no guarantees of that. And much of the analysis depends on your own financial situation, what the alternatives are, and the costs of those alternatives.

I hope this is helpful. Good luck. Again, be careful here. There are some great posters but many who are not at all helpful and just muddy the water.

I highlighted the wheat in the above excessively verbose comment. Ignore the rest.

NP: You don't agree with the part about seeking help from a guidance counselor or other professional rather than the experts at DCUM? No need to be nasty. Agree it was a bit long-winded but it was still more informative than 99% of the other posts here. Cheer up.

Your post was too verbose & too negative. Try to be more concise.

You offered some solid advice, but chose to dilute it & to pollute it with unnecessary remarks maligning other well-intentioned posters.

These programs are a lottery within a lottery. Penn accepts what -- 4% of applicants? 5%?

Huntsman and M&T draw from the accepted students, accepting a very small percentage of a very small percentage.

Of course, there's no harm in applying for either, but it doesn't make sense to build one's college application strategy on them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:does anyone have info about how good these programs are. My nephew is engineering CS and interested in M&T and my son is interetsed in Huntsman program next year. They are juniors in MCPS magnet. Do you know anyone who has done these, how competetive are these ( presumably extremely competetive comparable to HYPMS ) and how are the outcomes. are they worth the 90K tag? shud they apply to Upenn CAS and SEAS instead for better chances of admit

I appreciate that you are trying to do what is best for your family and are seeking information. You have to start somewhere and this is as good a place as any. But you sound like you really know very little and need to start from scratch. I am not saying that to be nasty - again commending you for knowing what you don't know and seeking information. Unfortunately, here at DCUM you will have to sort through a lot of trash to cultivate the decent comments so be careful.

Bottom line is that this program is extremely prestigious, competitive and yields really strong outcomes. Others can nitpick about exactly how strong, but bottom line is that graduates are very desirable in a number of different fields - not worth getting in the weeds on that. It is harder to get into than other parts of Penn so you should seek advice from a good guidance counselor (hopefully they have these at a magnet school) and/or college counselor about the odds, but even for the most "perfect" applicant it is not easy.

As to whether it is worth the money, that is a very personal decision. There is a long thread here with lots of arguments on the topic. There is a good chance that if your family member graduates, they will likely get a pretty high paying job so the ROI should be good. But there are no guarantees of that. And much of the analysis depends on your own financial situation, what the alternatives are, and the costs of those alternatives.

I hope this is helpful. Good luck. Again, be careful here. There are some great posters but many who are not at all helpful and just muddy the water.

I highlighted the wheat in the above excessively verbose comment. Ignore the rest.

NP: You don't agree with the part about seeking help from a guidance counselor or other professional rather than the experts at DCUM? No need to be nasty. Agree it was a bit long-winded but it was still more informative than 99% of the other posts here. Cheer up.