Anonymous wrote:To answer your question, you:

-stay at a hotel
-visit without kids
-stop visiting altogether

As for your mother laying on the guilt trip about short visits, ignore. It’s okay to say to her that they really aren’t pleasant given the way your father behaves. She may have made her bed and accepts this is her fate. That doesn’t mean she gets to pull you into the quicksand with her.

+1. Drop the rope. And if you visit with kids they need to pay. If they can help your sister extensively they should be fine paying but you are probably the competent, dutiful strong child who didn’t need as much help which is why you and your children get the abuse.

If you haven’t already, consider therapy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can you invite your mother to stay at your house every now and then? Or stay in a hotel near their home and inveigle your mother to come out and do things? I would be very blunt with your father.

OP here. She won't travel without him. She won't even sit in a Starbucks alone. She would never leave him out. Again, she defends him and even treats him as if he's her kid (hence why I need her help reining in his behavior, he won't accept any criticism of his behavior from me). If they weren't my parents, I'd avoid them, but alas, it is what it is. I have a sibling who is in her 40s and still relies on them extensively support, so she hears no evil, sees no evil.

This sounds like a dysfunctional family dynamic, OP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much misogyny have you internalized that you’re blaming your mother for your father’s conduct? Where is your responsibility as your child’s parent? You, the parent, your father’s child, are the person responsible for saying “dad, that’s not how we talk to our family members”. You let your son down, your spouse down, and you’re blaming your mother.

I more or less told him that, and as usual, it goes in one ear and out the other and he insists he is correct. This is who he's been all his life. And my mother defends him or tries to explain away his behavior. As far as I'm concerned, the only way to deal with the situation is to not visit. Remove the source of negativity and not invite the treatment upon ourselves. I bring my mother into this because she's the one who insists on the visits and wants the kids at their house. Do we visit more than we need to at this point? There's not much of a grandparent-grandchild relationship if every time my kids see them my father can't stop himself from being a jerk (and my husband doesn't like him much either, never did).

Sorry you’re dealing with this. As you said, he’s been this way all his life and your mom minimizes, makes excuses, and probably gaslights and rewrites history.

You don’t owe your parents a relationship with your children when they are not emotionally safe adults for your children to be around. I would think carefully about bringing your children to visit if there is a next time. If you do bring your kids stay in a hotel and visit for an hour or two and mix in other fun activities that are just your family, so it’s not such a slog. If it’s prohibitively expensive with the travel and hotel then take even more time between visits with the kids than you do already. Or just honor your instincts, which are protective, and don’t bring the kids.

Your parents will 100% get worse as they age.

Anonymous wrote:My mom and MIL would both like to spend a lot more time with my teen kids. But they have prioritized the feelings of their spouses (my dad and FIL), who regularly cross boundaries and create uncomfortable situations for the kids. So… I’ve put strong boundaries in place and they get what they get.

Part of me is sad for the moms. But they know they’ve made their beds and that has consequences.

I’m sad for these women too. These grandmothers probably didn’t have many options in their lives. Women who are 75+ today came of age on the cusp of the women’s movement and didn’t have lots of opportunities or economic power in their marriages, and they got stuck in these awful relationships. We cannot let the regressive forces that are becoming prevalent in our society make this common for our daughters.

Anonymous wrote:You can certainly opt not to visit, but I’d let your parents know why, and give them a chance to behave differently. If they do it again, then they’ve made their choice.

This. Grampa behaves himself or you’re not coming.

Anonymous wrote:You’re all so damned nasty, have no empathy, and are ageist AF. I can’t wait until you get older and your families dump you as quickly as you’re all so willing to dump yours.

The grandparents here are old. They’re cranky. Lots of old people become cranky. So you just put up with it the way you put up with cranky babies. The kids here are old enough that the parents can explain what’s up.

It’s called stretching yourself for people you love and who were good to you.

Not the OP, but a lot of parents in this generation weren’t so great at putting up with cranky babies. So, you know, “we learned it by watching you, Dad!”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much misogyny have you internalized that you’re blaming your mother for your father’s conduct? Where is your responsibility as your child’s parent? You, the parent, your father’s child, are the person responsible for saying “dad, that’s not how we talk to our family members”. You let your son down, your spouse down, and you’re blaming your mother.

I more or less told him that, and as usual, it goes in one ear and out the other and he insists he is correct. This is who he's been all his life. And my mother defends him or tries to explain away his behavior. As far as I'm concerned, the only way to deal with the situation is to not visit. Remove the source of negativity and not invite the treatment upon ourselves. I bring my mother into this because she's the one who insists on the visits and wants the kids at their house. Do we visit more than we need to at this point? There's not much of a grandparent-grandchild relationship if every time my kids see them my father can't stop himself from being a jerk (and my husband doesn't like him much either, never did).

you have answered your own question here.

You’re all so damned nasty, have no empathy, and are ageist AF. I can’t wait until you get older and your families dump you as quickly as you’re all so willing to dump yours.

The grandparents here are old. They’re cranky. Lots of old people become cranky. So you just put up with it the way you put up with cranky babies. The kids here are old enough that the parents can explain what’s up.

It’s called stretching yourself for people you love and who were good to you.

Grandparents are lonely and want to engage.

They are happy to have company but also they are unhappy bc no one did 'fill in the blank' when they needed support.

They don't know how to engage with teens and get nervous. Teens are bad at engaging with grandparents and get nervous.

Parents try to fake it and be overly sensitive to everything. Grandparent wants to speak up but is a poor communicator.

Set your own boundary about what you will do and where you will stay and how much interaction you will encourage.

A solution my friend found for holiday visits taught her teens to play some card games so now that gives her teens something to do with their grandfather and it cuts down on the need for conversation.

Anonymous wrote:Mom comes to you from now on or she doesn’t see them. Full stop. Your kids don’t deserve this.

This. Do not subject your kids to this.

OP, visit once a year with the kids and stay at a hotel. No matter the cost. They are -your- parents --- you need to visit them more often. You alone. Have an honest talk about the money. It's likely, if they have money, they would be willing to pay the cost of you visiting more often. At least ask. It's reasonable.

The kids will be fine but you don’t have to take them or your spouse if you’d rather visit alone or even not at all. Luckily you have a sibling who they support so let the sibling deal with them.

I have a not very pleasant father but I have to deal with him because my sibling is footing the bills. My father isn’t abusive but I have traumatic memories from childhood and he is quite eccentric so it’s too much work for me to try and help him build a relationship with my kid, so I don’t.
I just go alone.

My mom and MIL would both like to spend a lot more time with my teen kids. But they have prioritized the feelings of their spouses (my dad and FIL), who regularly cross boundaries and create uncomfortable situations for the kids. So… I’ve put strong boundaries in place and they get what they get.

Part of me is sad for the moms. But they know they’ve made their beds and that has consequences.

Strict boundaries. If your kids can laugh at it and are OK and don't take it seriously it's one thing, but if it hurts, visit without them if needed.

My grandmas were both mean and I was sensitive but had no choice-nobody protects people in my family. I did develop a sense of humor around it. That said, when mom became nasty to my kids, I set firm limits and she continued and I saw the impact. I don't have them visit. She doesn't care much other than for keeping up appearances. She does want photos.

If your preteen and teen don’t have a loving and close relationship with their grandparents already, they certainly are unlikely to develop one now. I would not increase visits and would consider why you were traveling for this at all.