Anonymous wrote:I’m curious, OP, would it be fine with you if your daughter never married? I feel like that’s the natural endpoint of decentering men. I’m not saying there is anything wrong with that, just wondering if people are mostly ok with the prospect of just remaining single.

Why are your only two options

-Have men front and center in all aspects of womens lives
or
-Be single

?

Do you give men the same option?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m curious, OP, would it be fine with you if your daughter never married? I feel like that’s the natural endpoint of decentering men. I’m not saying there is anything wrong with that, just wondering if people are mostly ok with the prospect of just remaining single.

OP here. I will absolutely be fine with that. One of the reason I asked this was because my niece chose not go to law school because her boyfriend threatened to break up with her if she moved across the country to attend law school. And he is not even a fiance crazy....Of course some will argue it's a "her" problem. But is it really a "her only" problem? In my opinion, of course I could be totally wrong, more women will, for example, opt to say with their bf over going to law school in that scenario. How many men do you think will make a similar sacrifice? Most men first instinct will be that another woman will be waiting for them when they are done.

I mean, you're right. Your eyes are open to this. I'm in my 60s and even though I have felt like I succeeded in my career and that my marriage is a partnership, I know I've probably put my husband's wants over mine a majority of the time and I had to delicately negotiate some situations at work because of a man's ego and expectations. This exists on a continuum though, and some of it is just a part of give and take. But above all, a woman has to keep her self-respect and be respected in the relationship.

Anonymous wrote:It's more than just in literature or movies. From the time I was a teenager, relatives or even random friends of my parents were always asking if I had a boyfriend. By the time I was in law school it was whether I was dating someone I was going to marry. It's one million tiny little messages that say no matter how smart you are, no matter what you're actually interested in, no matter what your career, your community is judging you based on your mate.

100% this. And then men are shocked women prefer to marry men of status (money, fancy job titles etc). I mean if you are going to be "forced" (yes I said forced because that what it feels like) to be married, then might as well pick the best of the best.

I will speak as man, so take my opinion with a grain of salt lol. I think the women who make these kind of sacrifices are primarily driven by their desire to be mothers. In other words, these women may feel like whatever stage of life they are at that point in time may be their "last" chance at being in a relationship that could possibly lead to marriage. Most women won't have kids if not married.

Don't get me wrong men want to get married as well. However, women , in my opinion, make finding a man for marriage, a far higher priority compared to them. Sure some men see a woman and automatically want to marry her. But I think it's more common for men to think of marriage after some level of pressure.

It's more than just in literature or movies. From the time I was a teenager, relatives or even random friends of my parents were always asking if I had a boyfriend. By the time I was in law school it was whether I was dating someone I was going to marry. It's one million tiny little messages that say no matter how smart you are, no matter what you're actually interested in, no matter what your career, your community is judging you based on your mate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m curious, OP, would it be fine with you if your daughter never married? I feel like that’s the natural endpoint of decentering men. I’m not saying there is anything wrong with that, just wondering if people are mostly ok with the prospect of just remaining single.

OP here. I will absolutely be fine with that. One of the reason I asked this was because my niece chose not go to law school because her boyfriend threatened to break up with her if she moved across the country to attend law school. And he is not even a fiance crazy....Of course some will argue it's a "her" problem. But is it really a "her only" problem? In my opinion, of course I could be totally wrong, more women will, for example, opt to say with their bf over going to law school in that scenario. How many men do you think will make a similar sacrifice? Most men first instinct will be that another woman will be waiting for them when they are done.

She is an adult with autonomy. She can 100% choose the life she wants, the man she wants, the career she wants. She has priorities that are different from yours. She is a woman and women get to have their own priorities and choices and decisions. She is exercising her agency and making the choices SHE wants to make.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe their goal is the man.

This is a lot of women, still.

I don't believe it. Men still believe this crap lol. No wonder so many are single these days lol.

Look at all the threads about women wanting a man to pay for dates and later pay all their expenses, and also buy them things, take them on vacation etc. These women aren't looking for equality, they just want a man to look after them.

For me, as an independent woman who would never center a man, there wouldn't be a date 3 if the guy didn't see women as equals, including financial equals.

Women can make choices. If they make bad choices, that is on them. Just like when men make bad choices, that is also on them. Everyone is influenced by all kinds of individual, family, societal factors that have shaped who they are and the decisions and choices they make but at the end of the day, adult women and men can make whatever choice they want. Good or bad. If women choose to give up their careers / jobs etc for men. That is their choice and I respect their right to make that choice even if I personally would never make it.

Anonymous wrote:I’m curious, OP, would it be fine with you if your daughter never married? I feel like that’s the natural endpoint of decentering men. I’m not saying there is anything wrong with that, just wondering if people are mostly ok with the prospect of just remaining single.

OP here. I will absolutely be fine with that. One of the reason I asked this was because my niece chose not go to law school because her boyfriend threatened to break up with her if she moved across the country to attend law school. And he is not even a fiance crazy....Of course some will argue it's a "her" problem. But is it really a "her only" problem? In my opinion, of course I could be totally wrong, more women will, for example, opt to say with their bf over going to law school in that scenario. How many men do you think will make a similar sacrifice? Most men first instinct will be that another woman will be waiting for them when they are done.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I have seen very attractive, very successful women make their man the center of everything when they are dating or even in a relationship. Some women give up successful careers, leave behind great jobs etc not because it's the best choice but because not making that sacrifice (in their mind) may jeopardize their relationship.

What wrong with being single when the alternative is giving up so much of your personal goals?

Don't call us men for being selfish for not making similar sacrifices. You are not being forced. You can say no. If the relationship ends or never materializes because of it then be it.

My daughter is extremely smart. Her lowers grade is a 98%. She is in 10th grade and wants to be an aerospace engineering major. I won't lie my fear is that one day she meets a boy she is crazy over and gives up a lot job grad school etc just because that's what that man wants. If she ever asks me any advice about giving up anything for a man, my answer will be a resounding NO. [/quote]

[b]I'm ok with women doing this if it's what they choose and truly want in life. What scares me is government trying to control and take away choices and rights from women. That scares me a lot. If you want to get married and have babies and not work. Great but if a woman wants and chooses to be single, independent, and employed that needs to be ok and accepted too.[/quote][/b]

OP, are you married?

[quote=Anonymous]I have seen very attractive, very successful women make their man the center of everything when they are dating or even in a relationship. Some women give up successful careers, leave behind great jobs etc not because it's the best choice but because not making that sacrifice (in their mind) may jeopardize their relationship.

What wrong with being single when the alternative is giving up so much of your personal goals?

Don't call us men for being selfish for not making similar sacrifices. You are not being forced. You can say no. If the relationship ends or never materializes because of it then be it.

My daughter is extremely smart. Her lowers grade is a 98%. She is in 10th grade and wants to be an aerospace engineering major. I won't lie my fear is that one day she meets a boy she is crazy over and gives up a lot job grad school etc just because that's what that man wants. If she ever asks me any advice about giving up anything for a man, my answer will be a resounding NO. [/quote]

I'm ok with women doing this if it's what they choose and truly want in life. What scares me is government trying to control and take away choices and rights from women. That scares me a lot. If you want to get married and have babies and not work. Great but if a woman wants and chooses to be single, independent, and employed that needs to be ok and accepted too.

I’m curious, OP, would it be fine with you if your daughter never married? I feel like that’s the natural endpoint of decentering men. I’m not saying there is anything wrong with that, just wondering if people are mostly ok with the prospect of just remaining single.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe their goal is the man.

This is a lot of women, still.

I don't believe it. Men still believe this crap lol. No wonder so many are single these days lol.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the United States it's actually not so bad. Women do pursue their dreams regardless of what their man wants.

In Africa it's a tragedy. I went to a HS specialized in science. The top 5 students were women. Guess what? All of them ended up making some kind of tragic sacrifices (dropping out of prestigious programs, marriage etc) to "appease" a man or his family. Their own families most likely discourage them from pursuing long studies, pressured them to marry asap etc. thank God it's changing though. And the through is most guys they are making sacrifices for are not even worth it. Most men today can't claim to have better jobs or better salaries than women.

This will never happen to my daughter. She will put herself front and center.

I'll call BS. No one on the continent uses the continent like it's a country. Dozens and dozens of nations with varied cultures, resources, geography and languages and you have five across a continent.

Are you saying that it's not a continent where in most countries the culture is dominated by men and men view women for their "domestic" nature?

Anonymous wrote:In the United States it's actually not so bad. Women do pursue their dreams regardless of what their man wants.

In Africa it's a tragedy. I went to a HS specialized in science. The top 5 students were women. Guess what? All of them ended up making some kind of tragic sacrifices (dropping out of prestigious programs, marriage etc) to "appease" a man or his family. Their own families most likely discourage them from pursuing long studies, pressured them to marry asap etc. thank God it's changing though. And the through is most guys they are making sacrifices for are not even worth it. Most men today can't claim to have better jobs or better salaries than women.

This will never happen to my daughter. She will put herself front and center.

I'll call BS. No one on the continent uses the continent like it's a country. Dozens and dozens of nations with varied cultures, resources, geography and languages and you have five across a continent.