OP doesn't have current pay. OP said she was laid off in September.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What was the roles stated range and what are you asking?

The the relocation to a lower COL area or higher?

The range posted was the minimum to middle of the range; I was offered a salary at the mid-point, but its lower than my most recent salary.

Similar COL.

This is important information. If the offer you've received is *lower* than your current pay, I think you can simply state that. Are you willing to walk away if they don't budge? You should think about that before you negotiate.

Also, my org pays new grads coming out of college $10K for relocation so your relo incentive seems really stingy for an experienced hire at the level you're describing. You could push there, too.

External recruiters are incentivized to fill roles, not to lowball candidates and force them to accept. I think you can say to your recruiter something like.... "I am excited about this position and appreciate all your help thus far in the process. There are a couple of items in the offer for which I would like to ask for additional consideration. I'm just not comfortable accepting this role for less pay than I'm currently earning, and with a relocation allowance that would not cover all my costs leaving me to pay out of pocket for the rest. This is not an economically good decision for me as the offer currently stands."

The posted range for the role is meant to represent the full range for the position, not just the starting salary. Coming in at the mid-point is actually a good place to start. But this doesn't mean you can't ask for more, especially given your current salary and the need to relocate.

Anonymous wrote:It means the recruiter is lazy and wants to not do extra work. They are grumbling. Hold your ground

I think this. The client hasn't shared what they will do on this with the recruiter and you're not 100% bought in to the role.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I am a recruiter. I’ve worked both for agencies and in house. You’ve left a lot of important context out of your post.

1. Is this the company’s internal recruiter?
2. Did you apply to a position with them that offered relocation or did they come to you?
3. Is there posted salary range and if so where is the offer in comparison to the range? If not what have they said? Ask them what internal equity is for the role.
4. What level of IC role is this? You say they put you through a testing usually for management. Is it a fellow or chief architect or equivalent role? Why did they ask you to do the testing?

I could go on but overall I’m guessing there is a mismatch in expectations between you and them.

One more thing, either way more than $5k is likely appropriate for either a sign on or relocation bonus. What is the total package though? Is there a sign on and relocation bonus? Stock?

Just the 5k incentive, which is paid out with the first paycheck (and taxed, so really about $3500-4000). The recruiter intimated that for management roles they have a whole relocation infrastructure in place but suggested this would not be available for this role.

It would cost, obviously, tens of thousands of dollars to relocate. They didn’t say anything about corporate housing, house hunting trips, per diem, etc etc. But the hiring manager really wanted me - I wonder if they would be able to make any of that happen. Idk.

Do you currently have a good job or are you out of work? If you currently are well employed I’d question the strategic thinking of a company that thinks they are going to get you to relocate to a similar COL area for a pay cut and essentially a huge loss in relocation expenses.

This is OP. I was laid off in September. My husband has a high-paying remote job so potentially can move, but not to keen to do so unless we have a *real* relocation package. I’m also expecting a similar offer for a local role early next week - obviously that would be my first choice.

I’ve been interviewing for these and other roles since November. Just very eager to button this all up.

Thank you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I am a recruiter. I’ve worked both for agencies and in house. You’ve left a lot of important context out of your post.

1. Is this the company’s internal recruiter?
2. Did you apply to a position with them that offered relocation or did they come to you?
3. Is there posted salary range and if so where is the offer in comparison to the range? If not what have they said? Ask them what internal equity is for the role.
4. What level of IC role is this? You say they put you through a testing usually for management. Is it a fellow or chief architect or equivalent role? Why did they ask you to do the testing?

I could go on but overall I’m guessing there is a mismatch in expectations between you and them.

One more thing, either way more than $5k is likely appropriate for either a sign on or relocation bonus. What is the total package though? Is there a sign on and relocation bonus? Stock?

Just the 5k incentive, which is paid out with the first paycheck (and taxed, so really about $3500-4000). The recruiter intimated that for management roles they have a whole relocation infrastructure in place but suggested this would not be available for this role.

It would cost, obviously, tens of thousands of dollars to relocate. They didn’t say anything about corporate housing, house hunting trips, per diem, etc etc. But the hiring manager really wanted me - I wonder if they would be able to make any of that happen. Idk.

Recruiter here again. Unless you are in a bad situation now or really want to relocate to this city, it sounds like this is not the right role for you. Most companies stick pretty close to the mid point when they bring people in. If they were to bump you up within the pay band for this role close to the top or within 10-15% of the top, your future raises will be likely not be as good unless you get a promotion. The hiring manager really wants you because you are likely either at the top of the experience range for that pay band or over experienced for that pay band. It's possible you could negotiate for the relocation package but honestly it doesn't sound like it's worth it to me unless they can bring you in at a higher pay grade/position.

Less money, no relo package. Why would you take this?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I am a recruiter. I’ve worked both for agencies and in house. You’ve left a lot of important context out of your post.

1. Is this the company’s internal recruiter?
2. Did you apply to a position with them that offered relocation or did they come to you?
3. Is there posted salary range and if so where is the offer in comparison to the range? If not what have they said? Ask them what internal equity is for the role.
4. What level of IC role is this? You say they put you through a testing usually for management. Is it a fellow or chief architect or equivalent role? Why did they ask you to do the testing?

I could go on but overall I’m guessing there is a mismatch in expectations between you and them.

One more thing, either way more than $5k is likely appropriate for either a sign on or relocation bonus. What is the total package though? Is there a sign on and relocation bonus? Stock?

Just the 5k incentive, which is paid out with the first paycheck (and taxed, so really about $3500-4000). The recruiter intimated that for management roles they have a whole relocation infrastructure in place but suggested this would not be available for this role.

It would cost, obviously, tens of thousands of dollars to relocate. They didn’t say anything about corporate housing, house hunting trips, per diem, etc etc. But the hiring manager really wanted me - I wonder if they would be able to make any of that happen. Idk.

Do you currently have a good job or are you out of work? If you currently are well employed I’d question the strategic thinking of a company that thinks they are going to get you to relocate to a similar COL area for a pay cut and essentially a huge loss in relocation expenses.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I am a recruiter. I’ve worked both for agencies and in house. You’ve left a lot of important context out of your post.

1. Is this the company’s internal recruiter?
2. Did you apply to a position with them that offered relocation or did they come to you?
3. Is there posted salary range and if so where is the offer in comparison to the range? If not what have they said? Ask them what internal equity is for the role.
4. What level of IC role is this? You say they put you through a testing usually for management. Is it a fellow or chief architect or equivalent role? Why did they ask you to do the testing?

I could go on but overall I’m guessing there is a mismatch in expectations between you and them.

One more thing, either way more than $5k is likely appropriate for either a sign on or relocation bonus. What is the total package though? Is there a sign on and relocation bonus? Stock?

Just the 5k incentive, which is paid out with the first paycheck (and taxed, so really about $3500-4000). The recruiter intimated that for management roles they have a whole relocation infrastructure in place but suggested this would not be available for this role.

It would cost, obviously, tens of thousands of dollars to relocate. They didn’t say anything about corporate housing, house hunting trips, per diem, etc etc. But the hiring manager really wanted me - I wonder if they would be able to make any of that happen. Idk.

Anonymous wrote:OP - I am a recruiter. I’ve worked both for agencies and in house. You’ve left a lot of important context out of your post.

1. Is this the company’s internal recruiter?
2. Did you apply to a position with them that offered relocation or did they come to you?
3. Is there posted salary range and if so where is the offer in comparison to the range? If not what have they said? Ask them what internal equity is for the role.
4. What level of IC role is this? You say they put you through a testing usually for management. Is it a fellow or chief architect or equivalent role? Why did they ask you to do the testing?

I could go on but overall I’m guessing there is a mismatch in expectations between you and them.

Thanks for your thoughtful questions! Please see my responses.

1. Is this the company’s internal recruiter?

Yes, he’s an executive recruiter.

2. Did you apply to a position with them that offered relocation or did they come to you?

They spoke generally about relocation assistance at the start of the interview process, but I was unclear in terms/packages offered. My impression was that there would be a formal relocation assistance program - which it sounds like they have in place - rather than an “incentive,” which is what I’m being offered.

3. Is there posted salary range and if so where is the offer in comparison to the range? If not what have they said? Ask them what internal equity is for the role.

I was offered the mid-point of the range.


4. What level of IC role is this? You say they put you through a testing usually for management. Is it a fellow or chief architect or equivalent role? Why did they ask you to do the testing?

It’s for an internal consultant role. I guess for roles above a certain pay band/those that are more visible they ask for this testing. I would be working closely with leadership, including executive leadership - this is a cornerstone of my professional experience.

Anonymous wrote:What was the roles stated range and what are you asking?

The the relocation to a lower COL area or higher?

The range posted was the minimum to middle of the range; I was offered a salary at the mid-point, but its lower than my most recent salary.

Similar COL.

Anonymous wrote:OP - I am a recruiter. I’ve worked both for agencies and in house. You’ve left a lot of important context out of your post.

1. Is this the company’s internal recruiter?
2. Did you apply to a position with them that offered relocation or did they come to you?
3. Is there posted salary range and if so where is the offer in comparison to the range? If not what have they said? Ask them what internal equity is for the role.
4. What level of IC role is this? You say they put you through a testing usually for management. Is it a fellow or chief architect or equivalent role? Why did they ask you to do the testing?

I could go on but overall I’m guessing there is a mismatch in expectations between you and them.

One more thing, either way more than $5k is likely appropriate for either a sign on or relocation bonus. What is the total package though? Is there a sign on and relocation bonus? Stock?

OP - I am a recruiter. I’ve worked both for agencies and in house. You’ve left a lot of important context out of your post.

1. Is this the company’s internal recruiter?
2. Did you apply to a position with them that offered relocation or did they come to you?
3. Is there posted salary range and if so where is the offer in comparison to the range? If not what have they said? Ask them what internal equity is for the role.
4. What level of IC role is this? You say they put you through a testing usually for management. Is it a fellow or chief architect or equivalent role? Why did they ask you to do the testing?

I could go on but overall I’m guessing there is a mismatch in expectations between you and them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I discussed my offer for a senior IC role with the recruiter today. The role would require relocation. I asked about an increase in both salary and what they’re offering for relocation. He intimated that if I were in a higher-status role the negotiation would be easier/ a no brainer, but seemed to indicate my asking was an inconvenience and/or out-of-line. Obviously I didn’t really feed into his intimations but is this a red flag or a normal recruiter response?

Is the recruiter in-house or outside company? I sweart 1 in 10 recruiters has functioning brain cells. Most are terrible at their jobs and seem to enjoy wielding some sort of power over applicants.

I would speak to the hiring manager if at all possible. If not, just hold the line and be polite and pleasant. The recruiter is probably either lazy or incentivized to drive your salary lower—or both. It has nothing to do with whether you think you’re “hot shit” or not as the other PPs said. Of course you want to negotiate the highest salary, especially if you have to move. Only you can decide how hard you want to push though.

ETA: No functioning brain cells. Outside recruiters tend to be much better in my experience.

Anonymous wrote:I discussed my offer for a senior IC role with the recruiter today. The role would require relocation. I asked about an increase in both salary and what they’re offering for relocation. He intimated that if I were in a higher-status role the negotiation would be easier/ a no brainer, but seemed to indicate my asking was an inconvenience and/or out-of-line. Obviously I didn’t really feed into his intimations but is this a red flag or a normal recruiter response?

Is the recruiter in-house or outside company? I sweart 1 in 10 recruiters has functioning brain cells. Most are terrible at their jobs and seem to enjoy wielding some sort of power over applicants.

I would speak to the hiring manager if at all possible. If not, just hold the line and be polite and pleasant. The recruiter is probably either lazy or incentivized to drive your salary lower—or both. It has nothing to do with whether you think you’re “hot shit” or not as the other PPs said. Of course you want to negotiate the highest salary, especially if you have to move. Only you can decide how hard you want to push though.

Yes. They think it's less important than OP does.