Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Foreign language instruction in the US is generally terrible. I was very surprised that my niece (who does not speak English as a native language and takes it in school) could speak as well as she does with my daughter (who completely understands Spanish but is resistant to actually speaking in it). Very rare that a 9-year-old in the US would have any level of foreign language ability.

lol no it’s not

I’m talking about non-native ability. Obviously there are plenty of bilingual children. But rare that a child would learn a language in school to this extent.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, but they went to a foreign language immersion private school since kindergarten. There’s also a foreign language public immersion school in our city.

There’s usually a lottery to get into one of them they are so popular. I had French lessons with a handful of students handpicked in elementary school. Useless unless the student has a real ear for language, kind of like musical prodigies. It’s immersion or it doesn’t work for the average student. What I didn’t understand about one of the Spanish immersion elementary schools is 50% of them were primary Spanish speakers. That was just plain dumb when the slots were so limited.

Excluding Spanish speakers from Spanish immersion is not only dumb but is also unbelievably unjust.

The kids from Spanish speaking families benefit the most from Spanish immersion because it gives them an opportunity to retain their heritage language, something that is not a given for them, believe it or not. It is not just an extra skill for them it is a connection to their families and communities. To deny this to them because you think only rich White kids deserve language immersion is gross and ridiculous.

Half of my family is South American and most need to work on their English a lot more than their Spanish. Some have their children go to language school on weekends to get better at reading and .writing in Spanish. Between that and speaking Spanish only at home they are not losing their primary language.

I don’t know if you are close to any families who speak Spanish as their primary language but the parents and older relatives have a hard time learning English as adults. Especially illegal immigrants who tend to work under the table with only other Spanish speakers. It’s in the country’s best interests to have more Americans speaking Spanish as it’s the second most common language spoken in the US.

To be fair, we are not even teaching English properly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know anyone who became fluent just by taking classes in MS and HS, but I know a bunch of people who became near fluent with that PLUS living in a country where the language was spoken for a year or more as a working adult. Study abroad doesn't work as well because you often spend too much time with other students. It can work okay if you live with a family, but work is the best way.

I have several friends who worked as au pairs in Europe after college for a few years and it cemented language skills they laid the groundwork for in school. Even living in a city where many people speak English. But you have to continue to put effort in.

I did a one month program in Spain in the 80s after taking 5 years in school, and it was great. I lived with a family and had 3 hours of language, history and culture instruction in Spanish every morning. I looked for something like that for my daughter and it doesn’t seem to exist any more.

It definitely still exists. Mundolengua is one that I know will match high school students with families for summer immersion programs, but there are others. I know of schools that also host exchanges with other countries that will enable this -- my niece's high school has a very strong German program and they have an exchange with a German high school that allow families to not only send kids to live with German families for several weeks, but to then host a high school student from the same family in their home. So the kids develop friendship with these German kids and it can lead to additional opportunities down the road (much more likely to go live abroad during college or post-college if you already have friends and know a family there).

Anyway, yes, these opportunities exist and are a great way for kids who are interested in fluency to build off language skills they learned in MS and HS. Often they aren't even that expensive compared to many other enrichment programs for HS and college students.

Anonymous wrote:Foreign language instruction in the US is generally terrible. I was very surprised that my niece (who does not speak English as a native language and takes it in school) could speak as well as she does with my daughter (who completely understands Spanish but is resistant to actually speaking in it). Very rare that a 9-year-old in the US would have any level of foreign language ability.

lol no it’s not

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, but they went to a foreign language immersion private school since kindergarten. There’s also a foreign language public immersion school in our city.

There’s usually a lottery to get into one of them they are so popular. I had French lessons with a handful of students handpicked in elementary school. Useless unless the student has a real ear for language, kind of like musical prodigies. It’s immersion or it doesn’t work for the average student. What I didn’t understand about one of the Spanish immersion elementary schools is 50% of them were primary Spanish speakers. That was just plain dumb when the slots were so limited.

Excluding Spanish speakers from Spanish immersion is not only dumb but is also unbelievably unjust.

The kids from Spanish speaking families benefit the most from Spanish immersion because it gives them an opportunity to retain their heritage language, something that is not a given for them, believe it or not. It is not just an extra skill for them it is a connection to their families and communities. To deny this to them because you think only rich White kids deserve language immersion is gross and ridiculous.

Anonymous wrote:I don't know anyone who became fluent just by taking classes in MS and HS, but I know a bunch of people who became near fluent with that PLUS living in a country where the language was spoken for a year or more as a working adult. Study abroad doesn't work as well because you often spend too much time with other students. It can work okay if you live with a family, but work is the best way.

I have several friends who worked as au pairs in Europe after college for a few years and it cemented language skills they laid the groundwork for in school. Even living in a city where many people speak English. But you have to continue to put effort in.

I did a one month program in Spain in the 80s after taking 5 years in school, and it was great. I lived with a family and had 3 hours of language, history and culture instruction in Spanish every morning. I looked for something like that for my daughter and it doesn’t seem to exist any more.

Anonymous wrote:What can be done to improve it? Is foreign language taught differently elsewhere? Or is it simply because English is the most important language to know so there is not the urgency to learn another language?

First, you need people to value learning another language. That just isn’t much of a thing in the US. When foreign language is always the residual thing that gets cut or deemphasized, you aren’t going to make progress. An hour or two a week simply isn’t enough.

Even with that, much of the learning has to happen outside of the classroom. Interactions with native speakers, foreign language media, after school or weekend instruction, spending time in countries where it is spoken. It’s a long journey that requires a significant time investment.

To improve learning foreign language?
1. Start earlier
2. Hire native born speakers to teach FL
3. Keep going. A HS administrator told our child the Spanish 5 class was full and to just wait a year. We said fine, they can repeat Spanish 4. School said no because of the current grade (B) in Spanish 4
4. Use it or lose it. Visit countries where they speak the language, go to dinners with a group of people who speak the language and use it, etc

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, but they went to a foreign language immersion private school since kindergarten. There’s also a foreign language public immersion school in our city.

There’s usually a lottery to get into one of them they are so popular. I had French lessons with a handful of students handpicked in elementary school. Useless unless the student has a real ear for language, kind of like musical prodigies. It’s immersion or it doesn’t work for the average student. What I didn’t understand about one of the Spanish immersion elementary schools is 50% of them were primary Spanish speakers. That was just plain dumb when the slots were so limited.

When you have less native speakers, the immersion experience is limited.

My child is in an FCPS one-way language program, which reserves 10% of the slots for native speakers. A lot more English is spoken during the immersion half of the day than would be my preference. I wish it was more like the FCPS 2-way immersion classes where 50% of the students are native.

No. I speak 4 languages, the one I speak the worst in is the one I learned from MS-HZ and even studied abroad in that country.

The one I speak the best in is obviously what I use daily to communicate with - English.

You have to get to a point where you can think in that language. That's how you gain fluency. Some people have an easier time of it than others but typically you have to hear it to know it and I mean hear from native speakers not formally from a book

Anonymous wrote:What can be done to improve it? Is foreign language taught differently elsewhere? Or is it simply because English is the most important language to know so there is not the urgency to learn another language?

I think it’s because English is everywhere around the world. It’s interesting I met some kids from Europe who spoke English just like Americans. I was wondering why they didn’t speak with British accents. I think American movies, TV, music is a big part of kids lives everywhere. English signs are included in most countries.

Anonymous wrote:Yes, but they went to a foreign language immersion private school since kindergarten. There’s also a foreign language public immersion school in our city.

There’s usually a lottery to get into one of them they are so popular. I had French lessons with a handful of students handpicked in elementary school. Useless unless the student has a real ear for language, kind of like musical prodigies. It’s immersion or it doesn’t work for the average student. What I didn’t understand about one of the Spanish immersion elementary schools is 50% of them were primary Spanish speakers. That was just plain dumb when the slots were so limited.

Our son started Spanish in 6th grade in MCPS. We all agree it's taught poorly and starts too late. However, somehow, he is fluent, and I credit his HS Spanish teacher who pushed him harder than any other teacher in MCPS. When we have traveled to countries (several) where Spanish is the predominent language, he has spoken with multiple people in some surprising situations and occaisionally done some translating for us. Nothing troublesome, just interesting people in different places

Anonymous wrote:What can be done to improve it? Is foreign language taught differently elsewhere? Or is it simply because English is the most important language to know so there is not the urgency to learn another language?

I come from another state with a large Hispanic population. Since K, I had Spanish daily as a subject. I speak it somewhat fluently although I did have a Spanish dual major in college too.

I am still shocked that my elementary school aged kids have zero language instruction.