Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, but I do with they didn’t need hundreds upon hundreds of hours in clinical, research, and volunteering to prove worthiness requiring a new norm of gap years. Mine doesn’t need one, but as the age increases worries it’s a negative not to even if ready. It’s a long path, don’t want it to be longer.

You again?

They don't "need hundreds upon hundreds of hours in clinical, research and volunteering" to get into med school. And much of your post here is incoherent.

I’m not the PP and maybe my info is dated, but every prospective med student I know a) becomes an EMT or b) gets clinical hours at a hospital or c) volunteers in some medical-related capacity and then d) takes a gap year to continue their ECs and study for the MCAT. I know no one who simply went to undergrad, took the MCAT and then got into med school. This was the norm back when I was in college and seems to be the norm today. PP is not wrong.

Anonymous wrote:Title says it all. In some European countries, Med School is direct admit.

Students still take PChem and Bio and what not, but so long ad student is passing they progress to the Medicine-specific courses without further ado. And the resulting medical knowledge is the same. They still have national licensing exams before one can practice.

You mean something sorta like maybe a pipeline from high school to med school? No, I don’t want some pimply faced 19-year-old checking my prostate with his Cheetos-stained finger, even if he wears TWO gloves.

Better to be admitted at 22 or 23 years of age than at 17 or 18 years of age. Some are ready at 17 or 18, have resources to help them (e.g. a parent who is already in the field, money) and the drive it needs to succeed. Others should take the few years of undergrad to figure it out. Had heard one parent say they encouraged their kid to do the 3+4 program (apply as a high school senior) so kid was more likely to stick with that plan and actually go through with med school and not be bogged down thinking about applying as an undergrad. Have also heard of others who got into the 3+4 program but end up not doing med school in the end (kid went to business school instead, the horror!

Already exists at some schools in the US. Still got to have the grades to make it through the program. Fortunately not a DEI ticket to an MD.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do your reseaerch as some US colleges do this. Brown University has PLME (8 year automatic admission to its medical school). I think Penn State and Thomas Jefferson Medical School still has this too (7 years for undergrad/MD degrees).

There are others...of course you have to keep up the minimum GPA etc.

George Washington.Univ has a 7 year BS + MD. Not for the weak.

New Jersey offers accelerated 7-year BS/MD programs, primarily through The College of New Jersey (TCNJ) in partnership with Rutgers New Jersey Medical School (NJMS), allowing students 3 years undergrad and 4 years medical school for a combined MD degree, with options to major in STEM, Economics, etc., providing a fast track to becoming a doctor with guaranteed medical school admission upon meeting program criteria. Other institutions like NJIT and Stevens Institute of Technology also partner with Rutgers NJMS for similar pathways, focusing on early admission to medical schoo

Op-there are many of these programs for Americans who want to get admitted to a program with guaranteed admission to a medical school. Do some research and you won’t feel like Americans are missing out

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I don’t see the point of someone wasting 4 years studying something in some cases totally unrelated before they can study medicine. Make it 5 years where they learn the required courses in freshman year.

When I was at the UN, all my friends my age were working as lawyers. I was a lowly program manager. I thought they were just smarter than me - it turns out, in the UK, you become a qualified lawyer in 3 years. I had done four years of undergrad and 2 years of a top master's program - and I was paid about half of what they were.

Anonymous wrote:High school education is not nearly serious or specialized enough to make judgements of medical doctor abilities.

I think that gets to the above points about foreign high schools. In England and Australia, you select five or six subjects to study intensely during years 11 and 12. There is no grade inflation. So if you took three lab sciences, English, and advanced maths and took a serially hard test in each of those to earn your spot, you could actually produce a solid class of future doctors.

I like American liberal arts requirements in theory, but the practical application is expensive and prolonged. Each system has its pluses and minuses.

Three comments up..

Bridging, not bedfellows.

High school education is not nearly serious or specialized enough to make judgements of medical doctor abilities.

Yes, I don’t see the point of someone wasting 4 years studying something in some cases totally unrelated before they can study medicine. Make it 5 years where they learn the required courses in freshman year.

I wish there were more med schools so that we didn't feel the need to import foreign doctors. I wish that med school was shorter and less expensive, like it is in those foreign countries, so that American kids could become doctors rather than random foreigners.

Australia: 6 years in total at U Sydney, U Melbourne, etc… it is not a lesser medical education. But they don’t faff about with courses that are interesting but unrelated to medicine (fl, history, philosophy, etc…)

Except, U Newcastle is 5 years and wildly intense.

To the person who suggested that too many would enroll if open from high school, be aware that the cutoff for enrollment (based on high school exit exam) is so incredibly high that they only release these spots to the highest achievers. The number of places is fixed, and you cannot simply enroll. The floor cutoff equivalent is similar to a 35 ACT or 1550 SAT. Only top 1% can enroll.

Do they probably miss a few great humanities candidates who might have had a beautiful bedside manner? Sure. But the cost of the education for all six years is about US$100,000 all in (tuition only, not living costs, many live at home.) And you can fund the entire thing as a no interest govt loan that you pay back through earnings when you begin working.

This keeps the smartest kids going into medicine, regardless of family income, and keeps the overall cost of health care far more reasonable than in the US.

There are a few other pathways for mature candidates and determined kids who commit to bedfellows coursework, but by and large it is direct admit. The system works well.

Of course.. 2 years of undergrad foundational course is sufficient.

Make it a 2, +MCAT+4 year, with direct admit to med school starting from High School.

The 2 years in undergrad should be geared to prep for the MCAT curriculum.

Most Asian countries have a 4 year program.

The Medical program in the US is exhausting and only thing it does it drive up prices and students have to go into massive amount of debt to get a MD.

VCU/MCV has had this program for years. My sibling graduated in the early 2000s from MCV after completing a BS at VCU.

https://honors.vcu.edu/admissions/guaranteed-admission/medicine/details/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do your reseaerch as some US colleges do this. Brown University has PLME (8 year automatic admission to its medical school). I think Penn State and Thomas Jefferson Medical School still has this too (7 years for undergrad/MD degrees).

There are others...of course you have to keep up the minimum GPA etc.

George Washington.Univ has a 7 year BS + MD. Not for the weak.

New Jersey offers accelerated 7-year BS/MD programs, primarily through The College of New Jersey (TCNJ) in partnership with Rutgers New Jersey Medical School (NJMS), allowing students 3 years undergrad and 4 years medical school for a combined MD degree, with options to major in STEM, Economics, etc., providing a fast track to becoming a doctor with guaranteed medical school admission upon meeting program criteria. Other institutions like NJIT and Stevens Institute of Technology also partner with Rutgers NJMS for similar pathways, focusing on early admission to medical schoo