Anonymous wrote:Many complain about managing all the factors in US college admissions. Academics, athletics, ECs, and more.

Would you prefer European style admissions where only academics (includes school work/grades and either ACT/SAT, and AP Subject Test results (not the number if AP classes or which AP classes were taken) matter??

No. Because universities are more than just academic achievement. They are communities. Holistic is better. Diversity is more dynamic and better.

I think it's a slight misconception that uk colleges do not look at EC's. Often they do, and in some detail. The Duke of Edinburgh Awards are popular and time consuming. These achievements appear in the written part of the "personal statement" as it relates to their major of interest - how it is connected to that, what has been learned from it (genuine insights, not platitudes). It can also come up in interviews.

What is very good about UK university application is you pay the single fee of about $40 for the one app and it goes to your 5 choices. There is no ridiculous expense like there is in the US where you can end up paying thousands, for the applications alone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:European way, at least in the UK, is also somewhat holistic. Academic proficiency matters more there, though, and I think they consider the right mix of holistic and academic qualifications.

Not sure their system would work in the US unless we also switched to making kids lock in their majors when they enter college. For example, great math and physics test scores are going to matter if you want to major in physics, but not so much history.

+1 Europeans lock in much earlier to their course of study as teens. And most European colleges are much more focused on that course of study too---definitely not as many electives that are not related to their primary focus (i.e. major). More practical I guess, but I prefer the American way which allows a bit more freedom for a teenager to change their mind about what to do.

Except that nowadays they need to be locked into a “narrative” from the age of 14 to get into one of these elite colleges. If you think teens should have the freedom to explore their interests you should hate everything about the current American admissions process.

Well said.

Anonymous wrote:Those of you who would prefer the European system: were you born and lived your life in the US?

No they weren’t. If they were they would understand that the European system wouldn’t work because the uneven k-12 system makes common measurement impossible. They might also know that top schools would all need to look like U Toronto in size to have similar admissions and finally they would understand that top schools in the US are PRIVATE and can do as they please.

If you want that system fell free to push for it in public schools.

Anonymous wrote:Those of you who would prefer the European system: were you born and lived your life in the US?

Immigrated as a teenager and would much prefer the European process and system.

Anonymous wrote:European way, at least in the UK, is also somewhat holistic. Academic proficiency matters more there, though, and I think they consider the right mix of holistic and academic qualifications.

Not sure their system would work in the US unless we also switched to making kids lock in their majors when they enter college. For example, great math and physics test scores are going to matter if you want to major in physics, but not so much history.

Top U.K. schools practice hardcore DEI to ensure that they are not completely dominated by private school kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many complain about managing all the factors in US college admissions. Academics, athletics, ECs, and more.

Would you prefer European style admissions where only academics (includes school work/grades and either ACT/SAT, and AP Subject Test results (not the number if AP classes or which AP classes were taken) matter??

Yes, DC's McGill application was so easy. Just some paperwork, grades and SAT. Clear, transparent GPA cut-offs for core subjects related to your major so you only apply to college if you are qualified. And no essays allows them to make a very quick determination.

It's rolling admission so DC applied early, and already has been accepted! No ED, just rolling admission with an early period and a regular period. Easy breezy and no stress.

High school is hard enough. We don't need the college application process to be this convoluted.

U Toronto is quite different…kid had to write three essays, LOR, list ECs…no different than the US, though essays were shorter and no personal statement.

Yup. Toronto is liberal and DEI (but called EDI there). I would avoid

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:European way, at least in the UK, is also somewhat holistic. Academic proficiency matters more there, though, and I think they consider the right mix of holistic and academic qualifications.

Not sure their system would work in the US unless we also switched to making kids lock in their majors when they enter college. For example, great math and physics test scores are going to matter if you want to major in physics, but not so much history.

+1 Europeans lock in much earlier to their course of study as teens. And most European colleges are much more focused on that course of study too---definitely not as many electives that are not related to their primary focus (i.e. major). More practical I guess, but I prefer the American way which allows a bit more freedom for a teenager to change their mind about what to do.

Except that nowadays they need to be locked into a “narrative” from the age of 14 to get into one of these elite colleges. If you think teens should have the freedom to explore their interests you should hate everything about the current American admissions process.

Some kids, yes, who are groomed for T10 schools, sure. But other teenagers just remain, clueless teenagers, who might study business, or computer science, or English depending on the day with no need to lockin.

Anonymous wrote:No.
I think we need a limit on apps or to abolish the common app or something. The process now is broken compared to when most of us applied.

But the Asian approach of high stakes testing sounds miserable for kids and I want no part of that. I think we would end up closer to that version then the European model if we went to tests only.

+1

I think a lot of problems would be solved if there was a 10 application limit for the common app.

Those of you who would prefer the European system: were you born and lived your life in the US?

yes but we're stuck with this BS American system in the meantime.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many complain about managing all the factors in US college admissions. Academics, athletics, ECs, and more.

Would you prefer European style admissions where only academics (includes school work/grades and either ACT/SAT, and AP Subject Test results (not the number if AP classes or which AP classes were taken) matter??

Yes, DC's McGill application was so easy. Just some paperwork, grades and SAT. Clear, transparent GPA cut-offs for core subjects related to your major so you only apply to college if you are qualified. And no essays allows them to make a very quick determination.

It's rolling admission so DC applied early, and already has been accepted! No ED, just rolling admission with an early period and a regular period. Easy breezy and no stress.

High school is hard enough. We don't need the college application process to be this convoluted.

Love that! Will put McGill on our list for next year to research. Sounds like a very common sense process.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many complain about managing all the factors in US college admissions. Academics, athletics, ECs, and more.

Would you prefer European style admissions where only academics (includes school work/grades and either ACT/SAT, and AP Subject Test results (not the number if AP classes or which AP classes were taken) matter??

Yes, DC's McGill application was so easy. Just some paperwork, grades and SAT. Clear, transparent GPA cut-offs for core subjects related to your major so you only apply to college if you are qualified. And no essays allows them to make a very quick determination.

It's rolling admission so DC applied early, and already has been accepted! No ED, just rolling admission with an early period and a regular period. Easy breezy and no stress.

High school is hard enough. We don't need the college application process to be this convoluted.

U Toronto is quite different…kid had to write three essays, LOR, list ECs…no different than the US, though essays were shorter and no personal statement.

I think the three essays are only if you apply to the smaller residential colleges - Vic, Trin or St. Mikes, right? There are no essays at all for Innes or University college. And the colleges don't really matter anyway, as you can take any major or classes at UofT regardless of where you dorm.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:European way, at least in the UK, is also somewhat holistic. Academic proficiency matters more there, though, and I think they consider the right mix of holistic and academic qualifications.

Not sure their system would work in the US unless we also switched to making kids lock in their majors when they enter college. For example, great math and physics test scores are going to matter if you want to major in physics, but not so much history.

+1 Europeans lock in much earlier to their course of study as teens. And most European colleges are much more focused on that course of study too---definitely not as many electives that are not related to their primary focus (i.e. major). More practical I guess, but I prefer the American way which allows a bit more freedom for a teenager to change their mind about what to do.

Except that nowadays they need to be locked into a “narrative” from the age of 14 to get into one of these elite colleges. If you think teens should have the freedom to explore their interests you should hate everything about the current American admissions process.

Anonymous wrote:European way, at least in the UK, is also somewhat holistic. Academic proficiency matters more there, though, and I think they consider the right mix of holistic and academic qualifications.

Not sure their system would work in the US unless we also switched to making kids lock in their majors when they enter college. For example, great math and physics test scores are going to matter if you want to major in physics, but not so much history.

+1 Europeans lock in much earlier to their course of study as teens. And most European colleges are much more focused on that course of study too---definitely not as many electives that are not related to their primary focus (i.e. major). More practical I guess, but I prefer the American way which allows a bit more freedom for a teenager to change their mind about what to do.