Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We talked to a college counselor (private) when our kids were in 10th.

He basically said - get every key science covered in HS,

Physics
Biology
Chemistry

and get the AP's for each of these

He also said get the AP's for foreign language and Calculus (AB or BC depending on your kid) in 11th if possible.

Then get AP's in English Lang and Lit, the Humanities subjects including Gov't / Econ / US History, European and / or world History

The 11th grade needs to be extremely rigorous so you get the AP / Honors bump and you show the colleges that you're academically ready for them.

He also said EC's are key - sports / volunteering in a very specific way related to your potential major / travel and learning outside of school where possible

The college counselor told you to be sure to take AP Bio, AP Chem, and AP Physics?

Yes he did, I thought it was a tall order, especially when other subjects dominated my kids interests.
My DD took AP Bio and AP Chem (afer taking honors versions of these subjects) but not Physics, (she was able to take a human anatomy course instead) While my DS took Honors Bio, Hons Chem and Hons Physics (no AP sciences at all as he really strugged to keep the A grades in these classes)

"Kids be sure to take every science AP" said no reputable college counselor ever

If you had paid attention you'd see he did not say that - he said in Bio Chem and Physics - that's not EVERY SCIENCE - there's also environmental science, psychology etc

OP: you don't say what colleges your DC is targeting, so first off, very different advice would follow if their main goal in life is maximizing their chances at a T10 school versus anything else. (And, FWIW, given how random and unpredictable admissions are even for those who check every box, one probably should question whether that should ever be any kid's main childhood goal).

I've got two MPCS grads, both at T20 schools, and they each took only one AP science class, as did the vast majority of their classmates who ended up at top schools (some took IB instead). As others have mentioned, AP Bio is generally a 2-period class, at least at our HS, so you'd be skipping out on something else if you tried to add honors physics that same year. And for kids who do IB science, which is generally a two-year sequence, many who take IB Bio don't ever take physics.

The uniform advice we got was to hit the max level in each core subject, and so skipping Spanish 5, which presumably means not even doing the year before AP Spanish, would be a far bigger issue for most top schools than not having two AP sciences. (Of course every kid is unique, and schools presumably understand if there is a reason--eg dyslexia-- beyond just it being hard. And if your kid truly would be miserable in two more years of Spanish, they have to decide whether maximizing their chances is even worth it to them).

I know MCPS counselors can vary in helpfulness, but they will be in the best position to tell you the general profile/course history of successful candidates from your school to the schools your DC is targeting.

Anonymous wrote:The high paid consultants don’t know the requirements at every school - at best they know a few schools well - the rest they look up just like you can. Ask your school counselor what is required to get most rigorous designation. There is no requirement anywhere for multiple science APs.

You are not paying them to look up the requirements at schools and by the way, no school has requirements to this level of detail. You are paying them for their judgment and alleged knowledge of what Admission Officers think/look at when evaluating an entire student's application. You as an individual can decide this is a waste of time and money or they don't know any more than you know or not a service you wish to pay for. But no, they are not an expensive human google machine.

Honestly, I would ask your specific questions on this forum. Obviously- it is not perfect. But if you are savvy enough to wade through bad advice, there are people on here who are very knowledgeable and helpful. Maybe not for everything for college admissions- but for course selection this board is pretty good.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We talked to a college counselor (private) when our kids were in 10th.

He basically said - get every key science covered in HS,

Physics
Biology
Chemistry

and get the AP's for each of these

He also said get the AP's for foreign language and Calculus (AB or BC depending on your kid) in 11th if possible.

Then get AP's in English Lang and Lit, the Humanities subjects including Gov't / Econ / US History, European and / or world History

The 11th grade needs to be extremely rigorous so you get the AP / Honors bump and you show the colleges that you're academically ready for them.

He also said EC's are key - sports / volunteering in a very specific way related to your potential major / travel and learning outside of school where possible

The college counselor told you to be sure to take AP Bio, AP Chem, and AP Physics?

My kid only had AP Bio out of the 3 and he was accepted to 2 Ivies, Hopkins, Gtown, etc. (not stem major). He had honors in the others.

The high paid consultants don’t know the requirements at every school - at best they know a few schools well - the rest they look up just like you can. Ask your school counselor what is required to get most rigorous designation. There is no requirement anywhere for multiple science APs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why you go to a college counselor about your specific child because of terrible advice like what is given on p 1 of this thread re: AP science, which is nuts.

We also have seen a college counselor about course selection.

My child is very heavily invested in the arts. That is their entire (organic) narrative going back to middle school. So no they are not dropping their arts electives to fit in all the AP science classes, which take up 2 periods each and are generally taken after taking an honors course in the science subject first. And no one would ever advise them to do that based on their profile or interests.

It's very kid specific and very school specific. In some schools based on required classes, you literally could not even fit in what this poster suggests.

A very good point. It's why I actually was asking for reputable sources for guidance on these topics. I figured there had to be somethig between the overworked public school counselor and the $$$$ pricey external consultant. But maybe not.

I think the issue is no person online is going to have advice for all your specific variables and for a lot of kids there are tradeoffs and pros and cons to discuss and then judgment calls to be made and you and your child should really be part of the conversation. It's not that pricey really. It's a couple hundred bucks for an hour of someone's time.

Take the most rigorous classes that are reasonable for your child’s abilities and interests. High schools vary, and there’s no particular order you have need to take high school classes in for pre-med later.

Anonymous wrote:According to prominent consultants like Sara Harberson, for competitive schools it is necessary to take 4 years of an Ancient or World Language.

This makes me want to laugh/cry. The language program has been so terrible for my child (thanks, MCPS) that they absolutely hate foreign languages now. It's a real shame. Having them take AP Spanish would be tantamount to torture. But I can see why in an ideal world, it might be a good idea!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's helpful, thanks. So, would an 11th grader would do both AP Bio and (first year, not AP) Physics in the same year?

Honestly, I think AP Bio and Physics 1 in the same year is doable. It's an introductory physics class, so if your kid does the homework and actually studies, it’s very manageable. Plus, doing that lets you take Physics C Mech/E&M senior year.

What do you drop to have room in the schedule for two sciences in the same year? You still need math, English, history, language, and potentially stats, computer science, or something similar, plus if they are in band, visual arts, or something like that.

You drop something like visual arts.
My DD took 2 languages from 8th grade thru 12th so she never really had room for many other electives

Disagree. There are diminishing returns to huge overloads. If a kid was doing arts they are better off sticking with it than taking an overload academically.

The "drop lunch, arts, gym, etc." mentality goes with the "take 18 APs" mentality. All of these parents, largely at suburban public schools, get brainwashed into this way of thinking. And I'm sure it has worked for some kids. But I am fairly sure the colleges don't care and aren't impressed. And your kids will be a lot happier without it.

Anonymous wrote:This is why you go to a college counselor about your specific child because of terrible advice like what is given on p 1 of this thread re: AP science, which is nuts.

We also have seen a college counselor about course selection.

My child is very heavily invested in the arts. That is their entire (organic) narrative going back to middle school. So no they are not dropping their arts electives to fit in all the AP science classes, which take up 2 periods each and are generally taken after taking an honors course in the science subject first. And no one would ever advise them to do that based on their profile or interests.

It's very kid specific and very school specific. In some schools based on required classes, you literally could not even fit in what this poster suggests.

A very good point. It's why I actually was asking for reputable sources for guidance on these topics. I figured there had to be somethig between the overworked public school counselor and the $$$$ pricey external consultant. But maybe not.

At my child's school, AP Bio is two periods long, so that takes up two slots in the schedule. Makes it even harder to fit everything in.

This is why you go to a college counselor about your specific child because of terrible advice like what is given on p 1 of this thread re: AP science, which is nuts.

We also have seen a college counselor about course selection.

My child is very heavily invested in the arts. That is their entire (organic) narrative going back to middle school. So no they are not dropping their arts electives to fit in all the AP science classes, which take up 2 periods each and are generally taken after taking an honors course in the science subject first. And no one would ever advise them to do that based on their profile or interests.

It's very kid specific and very school specific. In some schools based on required classes, you literally could not even fit in what this poster suggests.

Anonymous wrote:APs in each science is not needed for any school. It might be good if you are definitively STEM but even then it's not needed. You do want 4 years of science and one AP science, along with an AP Calc, AP Foreign Language, and AP Lit and Lang. After that, it's dependent on the kid and the school they're at.

This sounds more reasonable. What level school are you thinking of with this profile?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We talked to a college counselor (private) when our kids were in 10th.

He basically said - get every key science covered in HS,

Physics
Biology
Chemistry

and get the AP's for each of these

He also said get the AP's for foreign language and Calculus (AB or BC depending on your kid) in 11th if possible.

Then get AP's in English Lang and Lit, the Humanities subjects including Gov't / Econ / US History, European and / or world History

The 11th grade needs to be extremely rigorous so you get the AP / Honors bump and you show the colleges that you're academically ready for them.

He also said EC's are key - sports / volunteering in a very specific way related to your potential major / travel and learning outside of school where possible

The college counselor told you to be sure to take AP Bio, AP Chem, and AP Physics?

Yes he did, I thought it was a tall order, especially when other subjects dominated my kids interests.
My DD took AP Bio and AP Chem (afer taking honors versions of these subjects) but not Physics, (she was able to take a human anatomy course instead) While my DS took Honors Bio, Hons Chem and Hons Physics (no AP sciences at all as he really strugged to keep the A grades in these classes)

"Kids be sure to take every science AP" said no reputable college counselor ever