Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I disagree with chores being mandatory. One of the things we have done with my son is to eliminate additional responsibilities so as to reduce the stress of not having enough time to get everything done. Also we make family dinners optional. (And before someone brings up OP’s DD’s eating issues, my son was FTT and followed every 6 weeks by doctors because his weight dropped to the 0.03rd percentile). We also medicated despite a cardiac condition with care being coordinated by both a psychiatrist and a cardiologist.

I provided feedback on the other thread so I won’t repeat it here. But the more OP writes, the more I think her anxiety and her vision of what her family should look like interferes with her parenting the child she has. For example, you don’t avoid medication until after you have exhausted avenues for effective and safe use. And if removing chores might provide the extra time needed for schoolwork and redid her anxiety, to don’t keep forcing chores because yo think everyone should do chores. You treat your child as the individual she is with the needs she has.

We have not been enforcing the chores with her. That's my point. Pretty much everything else has fallen off the radar for her except for homework. Chores, friends, and even things that she used to enjoy - like her hobbies, going outside, hiking, and watching family movies. She'll say she doesn't have time for any of it.

Sorry, I misread.

With regard to sleeping and eating, those were issues for us too. We took our son to a sleep clinic and went through a lot of sleep therapy. In the end, he learns all of the tools but it did t make a difference, though I get a lot of benefit from what we learned. My son would just lay in bed awake half the night no matter what we did. And we later learned that after we fell asleep he would go out for walks, which was terrifying.

As do eating, we also used an eating clinic. (He was FTT and had so many aversions and he never felt hunger). In the end that don’t work well either. The final recommendation was to get in calories of any type whenever and however we could. That improved when he went on medication (can’t recall which one) and he finally learned hunger. He still has food aversions. But he eats now. This was complicated because he took stimulants do severe ADHD.

Mine is older than yours now but one thing we have seen is this. Control over the ADHD is the single only effective thing to keep focus and perfectionism under control, which keeps the time on schoolwork manageable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is she on any medication?

No. Hesitant to do so for many reasons. Worries it will suppress her appetite even more. She doesn’t experience hunger as it is and has fallen off the growth curve.

She also may have a heart condition that would be exacerbated by any stimulants.

She’s also still very young and hasn’t hit puberty yet, so I’m wary of putting anything in her system before she even hits her key growth stage.

I am confused by this because while those are valid reasons for not giving her stimulants, stimulants aren’t what treats anxiety disorders. Anxiety meds sometimes cause increased appetite and weight gain, but weight loss isn’t a concern.

Can you get a definitive answer on the heart disease? That seems like a priority?

Yes, we'll have to get her evaluated by a cardiologist to confirm. It's not a serious thing - I have it as well, but it does have implications as to what kind of medication you can take, and whether she can participate in high level competitive sports. I have just been trying to keep from overwhelming her because she absolutely hates doctors, hospitals, and gets really upset by every medical visit.

And I'm open to the SSRI's for anxiety. She exhibits adhd symptoms as well so I was speaking to that.

They’re not necessarily as effective, but there are non stimulant medications for ADHD. Knowledge is power. Have her evaluated for ADHD. If she doesn’t have it, great, but if she does, there are steps you can take to help her. It takes a long time to get appointments for evaluations and then then time to build executive skills. Don’t delay.

And definitely start anxiety meds ASAP.

OP, I think you are thinking this is a school problem (spending too much time on homework so she doesn’t get enough sleep, etc) and so your interventions have been school focused (we don’t care about grades, stop doing homework at 9pm). But the more you share the more it seems like you have a child experiencing a mental health crisis. We can’t know what kind, but that it what it is. I know she hates doctors and being diagnosed, but just as you’d take her to the ER for a broken leg no matter how much she insisted she was fine, you need to take her to a psychiatrist.

You are a good and loving mom. You need some new tools in your toolbox now, that’s all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I disagree with chores being mandatory. One of the things we have done with my son is to eliminate additional responsibilities so as to reduce the stress of not having enough time to get everything done. Also we make family dinners optional. (And before someone brings up OP’s DD’s eating issues, my son was FTT and followed every 6 weeks by doctors because his weight dropped to the 0.03rd percentile). We also medicated despite a cardiac condition with care being coordinated by both a psychiatrist and a cardiologist.

I provided feedback on the other thread so I won’t repeat it here. But the more OP writes, the more I think her anxiety and her vision of what her family should look like interferes with her parenting the child she has. For example, you don’t avoid medication until after you have exhausted avenues for effective and safe use. And if removing chores might provide the extra time needed for schoolwork and redid her anxiety, to don’t keep forcing chores because yo think everyone should do chores. You treat your child as the individual she is with the needs she has.

We have not been enforcing the chores with her. That's my point. Pretty much everything else has fallen off the radar for her except for homework. Chores, friends, and even things that she used to enjoy - like her hobbies, going outside, hiking, and watching family movies. She'll say she doesn't have time for any of it.

Also - our top priority (way before chores) is her getting the sleep and food that she needs.

Try behavioral activation - a short walk, an ice cream cone, something she loves to get her a glimpse of joy. This will help break the anxiety/depression/overwhelm cycle.

Anonymous wrote:I think you all aren't being strict enough. You can be strict and still loving! Like bed by 9pm, with laptop downstairs. Kick her off the wifi if that's the issue. Chores need to be MANDATORY. 13 year olds should be able to do every chore in the house. Pick one and make her do it. If she doesn't, she'd start to lose privileges (wifi, toys, items in her room, outings).

I think the big issue is that she's overtired which is setting her up for failure at school, which snowballs.

Do not make this into a power struggle, tell her maybe twice to do something and then consequences happen. My sibling lost the door to her bedroom because she was slamming it and hiding phone usage after bed. It sounds mean, but it never happened again. I know boys who lost possessions in their room and only got a bed and dresser left. Kids like to know where the boundaries for bad behavior are.

Do you have special needs kids?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I disagree with chores being mandatory. One of the things we have done with my son is to eliminate additional responsibilities so as to reduce the stress of not having enough time to get everything done. Also we make family dinners optional. (And before someone brings up OP’s DD’s eating issues, my son was FTT and followed every 6 weeks by doctors because his weight dropped to the 0.03rd percentile). We also medicated despite a cardiac condition with care being coordinated by both a psychiatrist and a cardiologist.

I provided feedback on the other thread so I won’t repeat it here. But the more OP writes, the more I think her anxiety and her vision of what her family should look like interferes with her parenting the child she has. For example, you don’t avoid medication until after you have exhausted avenues for effective and safe use. And if removing chores might provide the extra time needed for schoolwork and redid her anxiety, to don’t keep forcing chores because yo think everyone should do chores. You treat your child as the individual she is with the needs she has.

We have not been enforcing the chores with her. That's my point. Pretty much everything else has fallen off the radar for her except for homework. Chores, friends, and even things that she used to enjoy - like her hobbies, going outside, hiking, and watching family movies. She'll say she doesn't have time for any of it.

Also - our top priority (way before chores) is her getting the sleep and food that she needs.

Anonymous wrote:I disagree with chores being mandatory. One of the things we have done with my son is to eliminate additional responsibilities so as to reduce the stress of not having enough time to get everything done. Also we make family dinners optional. (And before someone brings up OP’s DD’s eating issues, my son was FTT and followed every 6 weeks by doctors because his weight dropped to the 0.03rd percentile). We also medicated despite a cardiac condition with care being coordinated by both a psychiatrist and a cardiologist.

I provided feedback on the other thread so I won’t repeat it here. But the more OP writes, the more I think her anxiety and her vision of what her family should look like interferes with her parenting the child she has. For example, you don’t avoid medication until after you have exhausted avenues for effective and safe use. And if removing chores might provide the extra time needed for schoolwork and redid her anxiety, to don’t keep forcing chores because yo think everyone should do chores. You treat your child as the individual she is with the needs she has.

We have not been enforcing the chores with her. That's my point. Pretty much everything else has fallen off the radar for her except for homework. Chores, friends, and even things that she used to enjoy - like her hobbies, going outside, hiking, and watching family movies. She'll say she doesn't have time for any of it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is she on any medication?

No. Hesitant to do so for many reasons. Worries it will suppress her appetite even more. She doesn’t experience hunger as it is and has fallen off the growth curve.

She also may have a heart condition that would be exacerbated by any stimulants.

She’s also still very young and hasn’t hit puberty yet, so I’m wary of putting anything in her system before she even hits her key growth stage.

I am confused by this because while those are valid reasons for not giving her stimulants, stimulants aren’t what treats anxiety disorders. Anxiety meds sometimes cause increased appetite and weight gain, but weight loss isn’t a concern.

Can you get a definitive answer on the heart disease? That seems like a priority?

Yes, we'll have to get her evaluated by a cardiologist to confirm. It's not a serious thing - I have it as well, but it does have implications as to what kind of medication you can take, and whether she can participate in high level competitive sports. I have just been trying to keep from overwhelming her because she absolutely hates doctors, hospitals, and gets really upset by every medical visit.

And I'm open to the SSRI's for anxiety. She exhibits adhd symptoms as well so I was speaking to that.

I disagree with chores being mandatory. One of the things we have done with my son is to eliminate additional responsibilities so as to reduce the stress of not having enough time to get everything done. Also we make family dinners optional. (And before someone brings up OP’s DD’s eating issues, my son was FTT and followed every 6 weeks by doctors because his weight dropped to the 0.03rd percentile). We also medicated despite a cardiac condition with care being coordinated by both a psychiatrist and a cardiologist.

I provided feedback on the other thread so I won’t repeat it here. But the more OP writes, the more I think her anxiety and her vision of what her family should look like interferes with her parenting the child she has. For example, you don’t avoid medication until after you have exhausted avenues for effective and safe use. And if removing chores might provide the extra time needed for schoolwork and redid her anxiety, to don’t keep forcing chores because yo think everyone should do chores. You treat your child as the individual she is with the needs she has.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow people are extra judgmental here. OP I’m sorry she’s struggling so much.

She’s in 8th grade, so grades don’t matter. I’d talk to the school and see if you can have teachers hold on HW for her for a few months. Or very limited, like 3 math problems, a time limit etc.

This is a mental health (and disorders eating, so physical as well) crisis. Doing pre-Algebra problems simple doesn’t matter.

Get her out of homework and into therapy

OP - Ignore the mean posters. The PP above is an approach you should consider. The perfectionism you describe does sound like OCD possibly - if you can get her evaluated for that, it might be helpful if you try meds.

It is great that you are addressing this with an 8th grader - she is still so young and has a long time left in your home for her to work on healthier habits. School is the least of your worries. Don't let your fear of her getting "off track" at school drive your choices with how to help her.

I wonder if you have communicated to her - "sweetie, I can see that you are really struggling and I want you know that your health and well being are the most important thing here. Your grades are not the most important thing. Let's drop the focus on that and help you get the sleep and nourishment you need. Your dad and I are on your team. And we are bringing in some experts because you are that important to us."

If the eating remains a problem, after she calms down and has more bandwidth, put your focus on that. You don't want to let that get away from you. Good luck OP. You can do this!

Yes, we've communicated this to her. Maybe even to the extreme - we've basically said we don't care about your grades AT ALL. Middle school grades have no impact on your future. What we care about is you being healthy and learning to build healthy habits that will set you up for success - and that starts with the basics of self care, like eating and sleeping. She listens to none of it. And I think that to some extent, I think this hurt her feelings a bit, because she has always placed emphasis on this and seems to take pride in the fact that she can achieve a 100 in all her classes.

The level of disconnection to her own needs and then her opposition to any help is the biggest problem. She will straight up deny that she needs sleep and food, even though she knows intellectually that her body needs sleep and food. And also according to her, DH and I are complete idiots who don't know anything and are stupid for listening to the advice of doctors and other people who also don't know anything.

And thank you for the support. I do think if we can take some of the homework pressure off of her, she will have a little bit more space to breathe and we might be better able to work on some of those basics.

Anonymous wrote:Prozac is for anxiety and has side effect of making many kids gain weight. That could be helpful here.

There is also a drug that increases appetite you could look into.

The drug that increases appetite is Cyproheptadine. It’s a first generation antihistamine that was developed to treat allergies, but it also stimulates appetite.

If your dd has had diagnosable anxiety for years, you really should try medication for that. On medication, she can better learn and access the skills to cope with anxiety that she works on with her therapist. (I’m assuming she’s in therapy and her anxiety hasn’t gone completely untreated for years.) Once she’s mastered some coping skills, she might be able to wean off the anxiety medication.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is she on any medication?

No. Hesitant to do so for many reasons. Worries it will suppress her appetite even more. She doesn’t experience hunger as it is and has fallen off the growth curve.

She also may have a heart condition that would be exacerbated by any stimulants.

She’s also still very young and hasn’t hit puberty yet, so I’m wary of putting anything in her system before she even hits her key growth stage.

I am confused by this because while those are valid reasons for not giving her stimulants, stimulants aren’t what treats anxiety disorders. Anxiety meds sometimes cause increased appetite and weight gain, but weight loss isn’t a concern.

Can you get a definitive answer on the heart disease? That seems like a priority?

Anonymous wrote:Wow people are extra judgmental here. OP I’m sorry she’s struggling so much.

She’s in 8th grade, so grades don’t matter. I’d talk to the school and see if you can have teachers hold on HW for her for a few months. Or very limited, like 3 math problems, a time limit etc.

This is a mental health (and disorders eating, so physical as well) crisis. Doing pre-Algebra problems simple doesn’t matter.

Get her out of homework and into therapy

Thanks, this is really helpful advice I hadn't considered. I'll talk to the school about pausing on homework.

I think you all aren't being strict enough. You can be strict and still loving! Like bed by 9pm, with laptop downstairs. Kick her off the wifi if that's the issue. Chores need to be MANDATORY. 13 year olds should be able to do every chore in the house. Pick one and make her do it. If she doesn't, she'd start to lose privileges (wifi, toys, items in her room, outings).

I think the big issue is that she's overtired which is setting her up for failure at school, which snowballs.

Do not make this into a power struggle, tell her maybe twice to do something and then consequences happen. My sibling lost the door to her bedroom because she was slamming it and hiding phone usage after bed. It sounds mean, but it never happened again. I know boys who lost possessions in their room and only got a bed and dresser left. Kids like to know where the boundaries for bad behavior are.

Anonymous wrote:Wow people are extra judgmental here. OP I’m sorry she’s struggling so much.

She’s in 8th grade, so grades don’t matter. I’d talk to the school and see if you can have teachers hold on HW for her for a few months. Or very limited, like 3 math problems, a time limit etc.

This is a mental health (and disorders eating, so physical as well) crisis. Doing pre-Algebra problems simple doesn’t matter.

Get her out of homework and into therapy

OP - Ignore the mean posters. The PP above is an approach you should consider. The perfectionism you describe does sound like OCD possibly - if you can get her evaluated for that, it might be helpful if you try meds.

It is great that you are addressing this with an 8th grader - she is still so young and has a long time left in your home for her to work on healthier habits. School is the least of your worries. Don't let your fear of her getting "off track" at school drive your choices with how to help her.

I wonder if you have communicated to her - "sweetie, I can see that you are really struggling and I want you know that your health and well being are the most important thing here. Your grades are not the most important thing. Let's drop the focus on that and help you get the sleep and nourishment you need. Your dad and I are on your team. And we are bringing in some experts because you are that important to us."

If the eating remains a problem, after she calms down and has more bandwidth, put your focus on that. You don't want to let that get away from you. Good luck OP. You can do this!