Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:my husband and I disagree about this. we have a humanities boy and I'll for him getting some money. DH thinks it's gross or "selling out" or whatever. I know my own life was helped a lot by an infusion of a bit of money at 20. I got that bcs my dad died. But I could buy an apartment in nyc at 25, etc. So much of my life was easier bcs of that money. I'd rather not have to die for my kid to have this. Do it for a few years and then go to law school or whatever you want to do. It's not a bad thing to have on your resume. and I know plenty of people who did this and left. you're not stuck forever.

No kid making IB money is going to want to become a lawyer now that making equity is getting more and more difficult

Boomers pulled that ladder up and away. Gen-X/Millennials will be the last gasp of high earners at law firms and even some of the younger ones there are getting pushed out, when they wouldn't have a decade ago

My daughter is an econ major at an Ivy. She knows absolutely no one there who wants to go to law school. The competition for IB and consulting jobs is apparently gotten to a level that she describes as "pretty insane." She's a slightly above average student there, and getting a top tier, bulge bracket job is out of reach for her. She tells me that all the STEM kids, especially engineers, are gunning for IB and consulting jobs, and they tend to get the first pick. She once thought she wanted to do IB but is now thinking of getting an advanced degree in her area of study because she sees the IB craziness as just another treadmill.

She'll graduate without any debt, and we are not hurting for money. There are many, many FGLI kids who are looking to support themselves and their families with a finance career. It adds another cohort to the groups of students that are looking for quick compensation. I do think the price of college also factors into familial pressure to "make something of that expensive degree", whether or not the parents are paying for it. That wasn't the case when I was in school back in the 1980s-90s.

That means she has 3.75 to 3.85 depending on the ivy. Of course the big-name jobs are out of reach, as are big-name grad/professional schools. Even from an ivy you need to be top-quarter at least for the top jobs just like you have to be for top med or top law, unless Engineering then top 1/2 will do.

This is not my experience at Cornell. But its probably bc of connections.

Plus 30%+ of kids major in Econ, PPE, stats at these schools

Pete Buttigieg studied History & Literature

I know Ivy grads (mostly from Harvard, Yale, Brown) who majored in biology, comparative literature, art history, political science, history, psychology, philosophy, etc who are all working in consulting (mostly in NYC). Some were pre-med or pre-law but got derailed by the entry level salary and signing bonus.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:my husband and I disagree about this. we have a humanities boy and I'll for him getting some money. DH thinks it's gross or "selling out" or whatever. I know my own life was helped a lot by an infusion of a bit of money at 20. I got that bcs my dad died. But I could buy an apartment in nyc at 25, etc. So much of my life was easier bcs of that money. I'd rather not have to die for my kid to have this. Do it for a few years and then go to law school or whatever you want to do. It's not a bad thing to have on your resume. and I know plenty of people who did this and left. you're not stuck forever.

No kid making IB money is going to want to become a lawyer now that making equity is getting more and more difficult

Boomers pulled that ladder up and away. Gen-X/Millennials will be the last gasp of high earners at law firms and even some of the younger ones there are getting pushed out, when they wouldn't have a decade ago

My daughter is an econ major at an Ivy. She knows absolutely no one there who wants to go to law school. The competition for IB and consulting jobs is apparently gotten to a level that she describes as "pretty insane." She's a slightly above average student there, and getting a top tier, bulge bracket job is out of reach for her. She tells me that all the STEM kids, especially engineers, are gunning for IB and consulting jobs, and they tend to get the first pick. She once thought she wanted to do IB but is now thinking of getting an advanced degree in her area of study because she sees the IB craziness as just another treadmill.

She'll graduate without any debt, and we are not hurting for money. There are many, many FGLI kids who are looking to support themselves and their families with a finance career. It adds another cohort to the groups of students that are looking for quick compensation. I do think the price of college also factors into familial pressure to "make something of that expensive degree", whether or not the parents are paying for it. That wasn't the case when I was in school back in the 1980s-90s.

My kid Switched to pre-med after her sophomore summer internship. She was sure that was the path until she got into the craziness.

I have a kid at yale doing EPE and there are plenty of people interested in law school. they are aware of need to keep getting As if they want YLS (And getting all A is not as easy as DCUM thinks).

But I can see an Econ major knowing fewer kids interested in law.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:my husband and I disagree about this. we have a humanities boy and I'll for him getting some money. DH thinks it's gross or "selling out" or whatever. I know my own life was helped a lot by an infusion of a bit of money at 20. I got that bcs my dad died. But I could buy an apartment in nyc at 25, etc. So much of my life was easier bcs of that money. I'd rather not have to die for my kid to have this. Do it for a few years and then go to law school or whatever you want to do. It's not a bad thing to have on your resume. and I know plenty of people who did this and left. you're not stuck forever.

No kid making IB money is going to want to become a lawyer now that making equity is getting more and more difficult

Boomers pulled that ladder up and away. Gen-X/Millennials will be the last gasp of high earners at law firms and even some of the younger ones there are getting pushed out, when they wouldn't have a decade ago

My daughter is an econ major at an Ivy. She knows absolutely no one there who wants to go to law school. The competition for IB and consulting jobs is apparently gotten to a level that she describes as "pretty insane." She's a slightly above average student there, and getting a top tier, bulge bracket job is out of reach for her. She tells me that all the STEM kids, especially engineers, are gunning for IB and consulting jobs, and they tend to get the first pick. She once thought she wanted to do IB but is now thinking of getting an advanced degree in her area of study because she sees the IB craziness as just another treadmill.

She'll graduate without any debt, and we are not hurting for money. There are many, many FGLI kids who are looking to support themselves and their families with a finance career. It adds another cohort to the groups of students that are looking for quick compensation. I do think the price of college also factors into familial pressure to "make something of that expensive degree", whether or not the parents are paying for it. That wasn't the case when I was in school back in the 1980s-90s.

That means she has 3.75 to 3.85 depending on the ivy. Of course the big-name jobs are out of reach, as are big-name grad/professional schools. Even from an ivy you need to be top-quarter at least for the top jobs just like you have to be for top med or top law, unless Engineering then top 1/2 will do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:anyone listen to this interview on YCBK about kids in top school like HYPSM going off into IB or consulting, which isn't news to me. But he's saying more than half the grads go into this now. How is that even possible. Considering there are many kids graduating in bio or chem or engineering or gender studies or French or English lit.

I realize you dont have to be a finance major, but more than HALF these kids are going into consulting?

Yes it is over half the grads at most of the ivies, Stanford, Duke, but that means half the grads go into the job market right after undergrad!
-At ivies/similar, between 1/5 and 1/3 are premed, even if they take a gap year they do not apply for consulting or IBfor the gap.
-Another 1/5 and rising every year are the law school applicants who take a year off more commonly than the premeds but typically do not do IB or consulting in that year because that is not what law schools look for.
-Some humanities majors want phD or masters: at ivies funneling into phd or top masters (other T10/ivies)is quite common after undergraduate: this group is not going into the job market, do not apply for consulting unless grad school falls through.
-Among Engineers/CS about half the grads at these places want PhD (or one of the fully-funded masters in engineering options). The rest are very likely to go into tech consulting, thus consulting is a very common non-grad-school outcome there too, often as a bridge to jumpstart their own idea for startups. Its just the culture at these places:

In other words it is probably more half the grads that do consulting/IB, of the half that look for jobs! Only about 25-30% overall. NBD, not new or concerning, and why not? These students if not destined for PhD MD JD are some of the top minds. Of course top companies hire them preferentially and of course they seek it, it's a huge resume boost to have MBB, Citadel, JS, et al on your short sheet.

I wouldn't say they are very likely to go into Tech Consulting...most of the Engineers/CS grads from these schools work for FAANG or now AI start-ups...SpaceX and Blue Origin are popular destinations as well. Many also jump directly into their own start-ups. Another cohort goes the Hedge Fund / FinTech route, and some are able to jump into VC.

I would say that less than 15% of the Engineering / CS kids that enter the workforce go into Tech Consulting.

this is the dream, but my own kid was an engineer out of MIT and maybe half went to work in places like Blue Origin/AI start ups etc. Many more got way more boring jobs. They avg starting salary out of MIT is 90k. Those are regular ol engineering jobs.

(I've said it before - where you go for engineering doesn't matter unless you're a kid who shines among other MIT kids .. which isn't easy)

Median MIT starting salary is 120k+ now, average for MIT grads that take jobs instead of grad/professional school which is half of their undergrad population.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:my husband and I disagree about this. we have a humanities boy and I'll for him getting some money. DH thinks it's gross or "selling out" or whatever. I know my own life was helped a lot by an infusion of a bit of money at 20. I got that bcs my dad died. But I could buy an apartment in nyc at 25, etc. So much of my life was easier bcs of that money. I'd rather not have to die for my kid to have this. Do it for a few years and then go to law school or whatever you want to do. It's not a bad thing to have on your resume. and I know plenty of people who did this and left. you're not stuck forever.

No kid making IB money is going to want to become a lawyer now that making equity is getting more and more difficult

Boomers pulled that ladder up and away. Gen-X/Millennials will be the last gasp of high earners at law firms and even some of the younger ones there are getting pushed out, when they wouldn't have a decade ago

My daughter is an econ major at an Ivy. She knows absolutely no one there who wants to go to law school. The competition for IB and consulting jobs is apparently gotten to a level that she describes as "pretty insane." She's a slightly above average student there, and getting a top tier, bulge bracket job is out of reach for her. She tells me that all the STEM kids, especially engineers, are gunning for IB and consulting jobs, and they tend to get the first pick. She once thought she wanted to do IB but is now thinking of getting an advanced degree in her area of study because she sees the IB craziness as just another treadmill.

She'll graduate without any debt, and we are not hurting for money. There are many, many FGLI kids who are looking to support themselves and their families with a finance career. It adds another cohort to the groups of students that are looking for quick compensation. I do think the price of college also factors into familial pressure to "make something of that expensive degree", whether or not the parents are paying for it. That wasn't the case when I was in school back in the 1980s-90s.

Both IB and Consulting are fixated on the "prestige" schools. These students are 21, and they have this $160,000 offer dangling plus bonuses.

Additionally, there's a lot of prestige involved in getting the jobs at MBB or Goldman or whatever. And that leads to other opportunities.

I can't blame young people for choosing this. There is serious wealth potential when you choose IB or consulting when you are 21.

Not every student can be an Art History major at Yale and live a la-di-da life. Nor do they want to. These are mostly brass ring students, for better or worse. The Stanford students today are almost always looking for a job on Sand Hill Road. It's not 1994 anymore.

Personally, I think if we had a country where it was possible to live a good and secure and satisfying life in the middle class, talented students would make different choices. But we don't live in that world. And smart young people will choose the money today while they can. Plus, these are prestige fields so it gets the rich kids too.

We created the world we live in. Young people choosing IB or consulting is a very rational response to what we did.

When I went to law school nearly 20 years ago, we were pushed pretty aggressively into corporate law jobs. I was focused on family law or trusts and estates, because I wanted to work directly with clients and found it a lot more interesting/relevant than working at a Big Law firm where I never interacted with clients and spent 90% of my time stuck in a room by myself reading documents. I had multiple offers from smaller family and T&E firms but my career counselor told me I'd be crazy to take one of them over the two Big Law offers I got because, "this is your only shot at Big Law."

I lasted two years and moved into the kind of law I actually like. It was a waste of my time. It didn't help that much with loans even because those first couple years in Big Law are overwhelming with insane hours and while the cash was good, I was paying a premium to live close to the office and all my friends were also at big firms and everyone just bleeds money. I moved to a small firm and started doing prenups, postnups and divorces, settled my lifestyle down, built real rapport with clients, and had my loans paid off in 5 years and was in a much more mature and settled place than any of my Big Law friends by the time I was 30 because I had a good lifestyle and actually liked my job and wasn't panicking about being counseled out imminently.

If my kid is ever in the same boat, I'm going to be the voice of reason advising her to really think about whether she *wants* one of these high paying jobs, or is just doing it for peer pressure and prestige. Those aren't good reasons. 90% of my classmates from law school went to big firms after graduation. Only a small handful are still at those firms and everyone else fled for small firms, government, in-house, policy work. The in-house jobs and some of the government positions probably required having the Big Law experience, none of the other jobs did. Also in my two years of Big Law work, I didn't do a single thing that a smart college grad couldn't have done, or even a college intern. My main job was just to bill as many hours as possible, the work was mind numbingly boring.

I listened. That guy seems to regret being a college professor and not following the money

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:anyone listen to this interview on YCBK about kids in top school like HYPSM going off into IB or consulting, which isn't news to me. But he's saying more than half the grads go into this now. How is that even possible. Considering there are many kids graduating in bio or chem or engineering or gender studies or French or English lit.

I realize you dont have to be a finance major, but more than HALF these kids are going into consulting?

Yes it is over half the grads at most of the ivies, Stanford, Duke, but that means half the grads go into the job market right after undergrad!
-At ivies/similar, between 1/5 and 1/3 are premed, even if they take a gap year they do not apply for consulting or IBfor the gap.
-Another 1/5 and rising every year are the law school applicants who take a year off more commonly than the premeds but typically do not do IB or consulting in that year because that is not what law schools look for.
-Some humanities majors want phD or masters: at ivies funneling into phd or top masters (other T10/ivies)is quite common after undergraduate: this group is not going into the job market, do not apply for consulting unless grad school falls through.
-Among Engineers/CS about half the grads at these places want PhD (or one of the fully-funded masters in engineering options). The rest are very likely to go into tech consulting, thus consulting is a very common non-grad-school outcome there too, often as a bridge to jumpstart their own idea for startups. Its just the culture at these places:

In other words it is probably more half the grads that do consulting/IB, of the half that look for jobs! Only about 25-30% overall. NBD, not new or concerning, and why not? These students if not destined for PhD MD JD are some of the top minds. Of course top companies hire them preferentially and of course they seek it, it's a huge resume boost to have MBB, Citadel, JS, et al on your short sheet.

I wouldn't say they are very likely to go into Tech Consulting...most of the Engineers/CS grads from these schools work for FAANG or now AI start-ups...SpaceX and Blue Origin are popular destinations as well. Many also jump directly into their own start-ups. Another cohort goes the Hedge Fund / FinTech route, and some are able to jump into VC.

I would say that less than 15% of the Engineering / CS kids that enter the workforce go into Tech Consulting.

this is the dream, but my own kid was an engineer out of MIT and maybe half went to work in places like Blue Origin/AI start ups etc. Many more got way more boring jobs. They avg starting salary out of MIT is 90k. Those are regular ol engineering jobs.

(I've said it before - where you go for engineering doesn't matter unless you're a kid who shines among other MIT kids .. which isn't easy)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:my husband and I disagree about this. we have a humanities boy and I'll for him getting some money. DH thinks it's gross or "selling out" or whatever. I know my own life was helped a lot by an infusion of a bit of money at 20. I got that bcs my dad died. But I could buy an apartment in nyc at 25, etc. So much of my life was easier bcs of that money. I'd rather not have to die for my kid to have this. Do it for a few years and then go to law school or whatever you want to do. It's not a bad thing to have on your resume. and I know plenty of people who did this and left. you're not stuck forever.

No kid making IB money is going to want to become a lawyer now that making equity is getting more and more difficult

Boomers pulled that ladder up and away. Gen-X/Millennials will be the last gasp of high earners at law firms and even some of the younger ones there are getting pushed out, when they wouldn't have a decade ago

people do it all the time. IB is not as fun as kids think it's going to be. (neither is being a lawyer, but they'll find that out in time)

two students, two different ivies, one a recent grad and one a senior, here are their respective friend groups.
Group 1: 3 premed, 2 aiming for phD, one pre law, one has VC funding based on a SEAS prize and has signed for a consulting type job as they start the company.
Group 2: 2 in med school, one in Vet, 2 in law school, one in phD, 2 the other 3 are in fact in consulting. The other has a nonprofit top job.