Anonymous wrote:Yes, PP at 21:06! I am way earlier in the process and got dumped flat out of nowhere. My DD and I are reeling. But in spite of the terrible upheaval that’s coming our way and what I know will be financial disaster, I feel a weight slowly rising from my shoulders. Like you I shrank myself down to nothing and didn’t even know it- SAHM to appease his career demands, dropped my hobbies because he couldn’t ever commit to a scheduled etc. I did a damn good job at being a great mom and an incredible partner and supporter, and to be told that wasn’t good enough crushed me.

But I’m starting to wonder why? Why would someone ditch a wife who made their life amazing and full of ease? It’s nothing I did and reflects only on STBX’s mental and emotional shortcomings.

OP, you have lost yourself and if you’re like some of us here, you may have rewritten who you were just to shrink into the little box your partner forced you into. It happens slowly and sometimes without you even knowing it.

I am still working on “letting” myself buy juice at the store (previously forbidden!), “letting” myself put the pretty pillowcases on, “letting” myself watch the show I like instead of the one that wouldn’t get me criticized by STBX. As I reacquaint myself with the idea of choosing me, it is scary and unsettling because I’ve internalized that picking what I like or meeting my needs=risking punishment.

Go stand in a grocery store and ask yourself what you want to eat, and what your favorite treat is. Pick your Netflix show, not the one you know he wouldn’t make fun of if he saw it in the queue. Start really, really small but start defining yourself.

It’s easier to do it in that direction than to start big and run headlong into the “what is my value as a human being” wall.

You replied to me, and I relate a lot. And I'm sorry that you were treated that way.

I don't know how far along you are, but almost immediately I got to see all my ex's theories about what he contributed versus what I contributed crumble to dust. His finances are an absolute shambles (despite him being an actual financial advisor). He used to tell me that a vacation with me wasn't a vacation for him because of my illness, and he immediately developed this medieval skin wasting condition upon leaving me (and his AP/girlfriend had to deal with it, not me!). He bought a house that floods with a mold problem, and the dog keeps peeing and pooping in his house (he never believed me that the dog actually needs to be walked and not just let out). He never has what the kids need, like food for their lunches. Yet he's always texting me financial info that I don't need like he's saving me from my own idiocy ("be sure to compare interest rates," yes, thank you, I did graduate the 5th grade). Just for good measure one of his teeth fell out eating tacos with the kids and he's broken a couple of bones this year.

I didn't even ask the universe to give him the Bad Man treatment. I'm too nice for that. But he is chaos. He always acted like I was the reason anything went wrong in his life, so he conducted the ultimate experiment in removing me and well . . .

I know my oldest daughter especially has also made herself small. I took them on vacation last week and she didn't want to stop for food at the airport because she thought it would upset me and her sister. Why? Why do we care if we spend 5 minutes people-watching in an airport on vacation together? We don't. But he would have. He would have been short and irritated if anyone had to go to the bathroom or stop for any reason. One time he ran ahead of me in an airport while I wheeled my suitcase and my 80 year old mother's (we weren't late, and remember I have chronic fatigue). I just had a running list in my head of all the things that would annoy him and avoided them the best I could. And he didn't appreciate how I held his world together.

I heard him on the phone with our oldest the other night. She was supposed to call him after her audition; he asked why she was calling him so late. She said, we just got home, it went late because I am in the running for the lead! He said, "And Mama just had to SIT THERE for 45 minutes?" OMG sir, I was in a warm car with my book listening to music and people-watching. And like, I am a SAHM with 57% custody . . . what else do I have to do? It was just, he had to zero in on his vicarious annoyance rather than being present and happy for our child. What a guy.

He just went public with his girlfriend and that doesn't feel great. But I still spend the vast majority of my time chuckling that they're both getting exactly what they deserve. And so am I! Turning spaces in my house into things that bring me joy is so much fun. He never wanted to go to church because he was so busy!, and so put upon!, and so stressed!, and now I do what I want. I take the vacations I want. Watch the shows I want. Cook the dinners I want. He was never happy.

We actually had that conversation when he said he was unhappy and wanted to separate. I was like, but your circumstances aren't what make you happy . . . you make yourself happy. And all he did was turn it around on me and say, well then you'll still be happy without me. And yeah, that was true. And removing all that stress from my life has given me so much. But I know he will be chasing happiness until his final breath, because he thinks it's external work, and it's internal.

Which is a nice segue back to the original prompt. Self worth is internal work. It's not dependent on our status or appearance or relationships. If we are doing the best given our circumstances, then we should feel proud of ourselves. There's a lot that is out of our control.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never felt like my worth came from being a wife. Ever. Didn’t you feel pride in yourself when you were 17? Are you a good daughter? Sister? Friend? Neighbors?

I think women are pressure to define themselves in terms of their relationship to others, so thinking about how you’re a good neighbor, friend, etc doesn’t really solve this problem.

OP, you are inherently worthwhile as a standalone human being. The problem is that your spouse couldn’t see that and honor it. That’s a reflection of them, not you.

I never felt that pressure. Getting married wasn't a goal, wasn't an achievement I was trying to reach. So maybe you bought into that talk, but either I never heard that type of talk or I ignored it because it seemed out of line with what I wanted.

Congratulations? What does this post add to the thread?

Not PP who wrote that, but PP adds another data point to the idea that there are many women who do not base their self worth on marriage. It might help OP to see more posts like these. It might challenge OP to explore ways to change her mindset and evolve.

DP. But yes. OP seems to be assuming a universal experience of praise for being a wife. But it would be useful for her to widen her view.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never felt like my worth came from being a wife. Ever. Didn’t you feel pride in yourself when you were 17? Are you a good daughter? Sister? Friend? Neighbors?

I think women are pressure to define themselves in terms of their relationship to others, so thinking about how you’re a good neighbor, friend, etc doesn’t really solve this problem.

OP, you are inherently worthwhile as a standalone human being. The problem is that your spouse couldn’t see that and honor it. That’s a reflection of them, not you.

I never felt that pressure. Getting married wasn't a goal, wasn't an achievement I was trying to reach. So maybe you bought into that talk, but either I never heard that type of talk or I ignored it because it seemed out of line with what I wanted.

Congratulations? What does this post add to the thread?

Not PP who wrote that, but PP adds another data point to the idea that there are many women who do not base their self worth on marriage. It might help OP to see more posts like these. It might challenge OP to explore ways to change her mindset and evolve.

OP, you are a worthwhile individual on your own. You are a person, with talents and feelings and interests and qualities. This fundamental YOU is what you bring to the relationships in your life. Those relationships are ornaments to your life. They are not the sole purpose of your life.

You need to work on building your own interests, talents, skills, and independence. The more you do that, the more a genuine sense of self-worth will emerge.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never felt like my worth came from being a wife. Ever. Didn’t you feel pride in yourself when you were 17? Are you a good daughter? Sister? Friend? Neighbors?

I think women are pressure to define themselves in terms of their relationship to others, so thinking about how you’re a good neighbor, friend, etc doesn’t really solve this problem.

OP, you are inherently worthwhile as a standalone human being. The problem is that your spouse couldn’t see that and honor it. That’s a reflection of them, not you.

I never felt that pressure. Getting married wasn't a goal, wasn't an achievement I was trying to reach. So maybe you bought into that talk, but either I never heard that type of talk or I ignored it because it seemed out of line with what I wanted.

Congratulations? What does this post add to the thread?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never felt like my worth came from being a wife. Ever. Didn’t you feel pride in yourself when you were 17? Are you a good daughter? Sister? Friend? Neighbors?

I think women are pressure to define themselves in terms of their relationship to others, so thinking about how you’re a good neighbor, friend, etc doesn’t really solve this problem.

OP, you are inherently worthwhile as a standalone human being. The problem is that your spouse couldn’t see that and honor it. That’s a reflection of them, not you.

I never felt that pressure. Getting married wasn't a goal, wasn't an achievement I was trying to reach. So maybe you bought into that talk, but either I never heard that type of talk or I ignored it because it seemed out of line with what I wanted.

Yes, PP at 21:06! I am way earlier in the process and got dumped flat out of nowhere. My DD and I are reeling. But in spite of the terrible upheaval that’s coming our way and what I know will be financial disaster, I feel a weight slowly rising from my shoulders. Like you I shrank myself down to nothing and didn’t even know it- SAHM to appease his career demands, dropped my hobbies because he couldn’t ever commit to a scheduled etc. I did a damn good job at being a great mom and an incredible partner and supporter, and to be told that wasn’t good enough crushed me.

But I’m starting to wonder why? Why would someone ditch a wife who made their life amazing and full of ease? It’s nothing I did and reflects only on STBX’s mental and emotional shortcomings.

OP, you have lost yourself and if you’re like some of us here, you may have rewritten who you were just to shrink into the little box your partner forced you into. It happens slowly and sometimes without you even knowing it.

I am still working on “letting” myself buy juice at the store (previously forbidden!), “letting” myself put the pretty pillowcases on, “letting” myself watch the show I like instead of the one that wouldn’t get me criticized by STBX. As I reacquaint myself with the idea of choosing me, it is scary and unsettling because I’ve internalized that picking what I like or meeting my needs=risking punishment.

Go stand in a grocery store and ask yourself what you want to eat, and what your favorite treat is. Pick your Netflix show, not the one you know he wouldn’t make fun of if he saw it in the queue. Start really, really small but start defining yourself.

It’s easier to do it in that direction than to start big and run headlong into the “what is my value as a human being” wall.

Anonymous wrote:Spend more time around women, especially those 10-20 years older than you. 50s-60s women are the absolutely best.

It's like this whole other world nobody even knows exists, where we all do whatever TF we want.

I'm 15 months out from my ex suddenly leaving me and OMG I cannot believe how small I made myself for that man, and for the world at large I guess. I really had zero idea what the patriarchy had done to me.

It's like every day is "yes day" and I get to prioritize my own needs and desires. I mean, obviously I still prioritize my teens as well, but I get actual whole chunks of the week off where it's somebody else's responsibility.

I did have to reckon with the whole "but what is my value?" I had to do a lot of that before, too, though, because I have a chronic illness and can't work. So being a wife and mother was, like, my one job, and I got . . . fired from it? After I already had to give up my career and feel like shit 80% of each day?

But no, actually, there is liberation in just being stripped down to your beating heart. I have value because I live and breathe and love people. Not many people, mind you! Only people who deserve my love. When I was a wife I had to be nice to so.many.people. Now if I don't like someone I just don't reply to their email, I just don't answer their call. That didn't happen overnight; I've had to do this step by step. Like the other day it occurred to me for the first time that if I want to see a show in Philadelphia, I don't need to ask anyone, I don't need a buddy. I just book it. I just go. I don't need a wingwoman or permission.

I matter because I am a clump of sentient cells careening through the universe on a tiny pebble. I matter just because I am. A self-absorbed man-baby with a drinking problem and a history of cheating does not determine my worth. Wherever I go, people tell me how radiant I look, how good divorce seems to be for me. I'm surprised no one has thrown confetti yet.

You matter. Just because you are you.

A year ago I was still sobbing, "What did I do to deserve this?" Today I understand that what I didn't deserve was such an inequitable partnership. And if anyone is going to judge me for my ex's shortcomings, well they're probably not on my list of phone calls and emails I'd actually answer. (All the ones I really love picked me in the divorce.)

Rejection hurts, but it gently reminds us that there will always be love in our lives, just maybe not from who we expected. And always always always, we hold and love ourselves fiercely. Loss is a part of everyone's life. If this has stripped away our identity then we needed to dig a deeper foundation there regardless.

I never felt this way in my entire life. I thought the idea of marriage as a goal as ridiculous. I'm divorced. It was my choice. Marriage was the mistake to begin with.

I never felt "value" because a man wanted me. That is crazy to me.

I am late 40s.

You seriously need to find other ways to define your own value. It is NOT tied to a man. Sorry you were raised that way. I was raised that way too but I rejected that notion when I was a teenager.

“ We receive so much validation in society as women for having been picked by a man, a high value man. And to be a wife and a mother is seen as the highest achievement. You have a lavish wedding and a baby shower to celebrate this milestone.”

Look around you. Yes, those of us of a certain age have been fed this b.s. story. But more people than not are single, for whatever reason. And most marriages are mediocre at best. The number of people who are happily married in a healthy relationship is extremely small. This is all about opening your eyes and realizing reality.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never felt like my worth came from being a wife. Ever. Didn’t you feel pride in yourself when you were 17? Are you a good daughter? Sister? Friend? Neighbors?

I think women are pressure to define themselves in terms of their relationship to others, so thinking about how you’re a good neighbor, friend, etc doesn’t really solve this problem.

OP, you are inherently worthwhile as a standalone human being. The problem is that your spouse couldn’t see that and honor it. That’s a reflection of them, not you.

NP and gosh where would we be if men felt any of this? How many men are genuinely good husbands, fathers, brothers, neighbors, friends. In my mind I can think of only a few.

I felt like this. I think I was a good husband most of the time but wife made me feel bad most of the time. Now she's ex wife. I feel better. Maybe she does roo.

Guy, let’s be real. If you were a good husband, you wouldn’t be divorced. I’m married and I look around and see what women put up with and if you weren’t tolerable then you were probably pretty terrible. That goes for your ex wife too, you weren’t good for each other or to each other.

I think sometimes we try to fish for reasons that led to the end of a marriage....In most cases it's not that deep, like is complicated and unpredictable.

I think one of the reason people assign blame to people divorcing is the high profile nature of the divorce process itself.

This was a problem before you got divorced! That’s not a good way to feel about yourself even if you’re married and a mom.

You’re getting some really good advice, particularly about knowing you have high worth aside from who you are to others. What are your passions? Hobbies? Finding or re-learning your passions and giving regular self-care are important here. Hug.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m currently separated from my stbxh and I don’t see a reconciliation on the horizon. Among one of the hardest realities here is how my sense of self has changed. If I am not a wife and mother and I do not have a man who actively loves me and commits to me, what am I worth?

We receive so much validation in society as women for having been picked by a man, a high value man. And to be a wife and a mother is seen as the highest achievement. You have a lavish wedding and a baby shower to celebrate this milestone.

But what if you were never able to hit this milestone or it did not work out.

I’m feeling pretty terrible about it. 💔

Sorry you are feeling terrible about the dissolution of your marriage, but you should tone down your " high value" rhetoric.

Who is this "we" you speak of? You and Hillary Clinton? These are modern times. People are shouting from the top of the hill, urging women to have lives, careers, hobbies. If you did not listen, we will still support and uplift you. But don't claim women's self worth are tied to their spouses being " high value" men and lavish weddings.

My sister is happily divorced. She has a great career and wonderful friends. Most of the women I know would be in a similar situation to my sistder. Sure, they will miss the love/romance they once shared with their spouses. But this " high value" men talk is ridiculous.

I am sorry while your experience has been different, I think OP's view is more likely to be the view that's prevalent on our society today.

Now I think it's generational. I don't millennial and Gen Z women will feel this way. But Gen X women probably will.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m currently separated from my stbxh and I don’t see a reconciliation on the horizon. Among one of the hardest realities here is how my sense of self has changed. If I am not a wife and mother and I do not have a man who actively loves me and commits to me, what am I worth?

We receive so much validation in society as women for having been picked by a man, a high value man. And to be a wife and a mother is seen as the highest achievement. You have a lavish wedding and a baby shower to celebrate this milestone.

But what if you were never able to hit this milestone or it did not work out.

I’m feeling pretty terrible about it. 💔

Sorry you are feeling terrible about the dissolution of your marriage, but you should tone down your " high value" rhetoric.

Who is this "we" you speak of? You and Hillary Clinton? These are modern times. People are shouting from the top of the hill, urging women to have lives, careers, hobbies. If you did not listen, we will still support and uplift you. But don't claim women's self worth are tied to their spouses being " high value" men and lavish weddings.

My sister is happily divorced. She has a great career and wonderful friends. Most of the women I know would be in a similar situation to my sistder. Sure, they will miss the love/romance they once shared with their spouses. But this " high value" men talk is ridiculous.

Yes, this was the key takeaway from that Vogue article about being embarrassed to have a boyfriend that had everyone up in arms. People took it so literally, but the message was simply having a man should not be central to your identity as a woman.