Anonymous wrote:i'm sorry if is this the wrong forum, but i searched on the relationships forum and couldn't find anything. i thought this forum may know more because it's been very helpful for my two SN kids.

My husband is high-functioning autistic, and I'm in so much pain from the way he treats me, and I don't know what to do. We are in therapy, but i believe he needs help learning the basics of interpreting emotions and body language (our therapist does more "traditional" marital conflict stuff like how do we decide who empties the dishwasher, etc. Plus, it's over zoom, and I think the therapist misses a lot of the physical cues because we aren't in the same room). Our therapist says my husband is clearly on the autism specturm, but he doesn't know much about how to treat it.

Is there any evaluation for:
1. assessing if an adult can interpret other people's emotions (FWIW, a neuropsych said my son has trouble with this, and i asked where an adult could take the test, and she said she didn;t know).
2. a body language class for adults on the specturm. For example, he clenches his fists whenever I ask him the slightest thing, and it makes me feel like the conversation is torturing him. I totally respect if that's what his body needs to do, but I just wonder if there is some type of therapist that could mediate between the two of us, so I don't misinterpret stuff.
3. some kind of therapy that explains words to use that are and are not helpful in emotional situations. For example, when my father had a heart attack and was unconscious in the ICU, my husband made stupid dad jokes to try to cheer me up. This was not helpful. Can some type of therapist explain that to him not using emotional explanations, but using a more scripted approach like the one used in ABA (applied behavioral analysis)?

BTW, he has pathological demand avoidance and extremely rigid thinking. So when our current therapist tries to explain stuff to him, he just argues and argues about how what the therapist is saying is not true. He's off the charts smart, and it just turns into a battle over the "facts of the case." If me or the therapist asks him to do something, the PDA kicks in and he just shouts about how he wont' do that because it won't work. He also refuses to accept the autism diagnosis and then argues over the symptom list and claims he doesn't have any of them (he has them).

To be clear, I love him. And i dont' want to leave him.
TIA

Here’s how I see it — and I’m no doctor, no diagnostician, no man with a clipboard and a pen — I’m just someone who’s watched a lot of human hearts bump into each other in all sorts of ways. And what you’re describing… that’s not a marriage lacking love, it’s a marriage lacking translation. Two good folks trying to speak the same language with two completely different dictionaries.

Your husband ain’t doing this to hurt you. He’s doing this because his mind is wired like a high-performance engine — brilliant, fast, precise — but not necessarily built with the same emotional dashboard most folks have. And you? You’re feeling the dents and dings from riding shotgun with him at full speed.

But here’s the thing: nothing you’re asking for is unreasonable. Not a bit of it. There ARE clinicians who work with adults on the spectrum — folks who focus on emotional interpretation, social cognition, body language coaching, even very literal, very scripted communication tools. They do exist. Just gotta find the right ranch to ride up to.

And what you need — really need — is someone who’s fluent in both languages: autism-informed couples therapy or neurodiverse couples counseling. That’s not dishes-and-roles therapy. That’s nervous-system-to-nervous-system therapy. That’s somebody who can stop the whole dance and say, “Alright, here’s what she meant. Here’s what he heard. And here’s how we build a bridge between the two.”

As for that fist clenching? That’s not aggression. That’s overwhelm escaping through a small crack in the dam. A specialist can explain that — to both of you — without moral judgment or emotional poetry. Scripted, structured, plain and simple.

And those dad jokes in the ICU? Lord knows that hurt. But that was him using the only tool he had in that moment. He reached for comfort, but he only had the wrench, not the key.

None of this means you’re crazy, or dramatic, or asking too much. It just means you’re asking for something he was never taught how to do.

So here’s what I’d tell you, in that quiet voice you use when you’re calming a nervous horse:

You can love someone and still need things to change.
You can protect your heart without abandoning his.
And you can insist on help that actually helps.

Go find someone who specializes in neurodiverse couples. Someone in-person, if you can swing it. Someone who doesn’t let him turn therapy into a courtroom debate. Someone who understands PDA and rigid thinking and how to work around that, not through force but through strategy.

This isn’t hopeless. Not at all.
It’s just a story where both characters need a guide who speaks both dialects.

And you, my friend, you deserve to feel understood too.

OP your follows don’t make it better. Since you don’t want to leave, and can’t change him, you’ve made your decision.

Actually, I think you might do better stating your feeling: "When I was all alone at my mother's I felt isolated and sad and hurting. "

And not demanding an "apology."

Let him learn what hurts your feelings. Then he might not do that as often.

Use I sentences not you sentences.

OP here. This has been really helpful and clarified my decision to work on acceptance (not easy, but the best path given all the variables).

In case it helps anyone else who loves someone with Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA), I thought I would share one thing that I think I've figured out.

I find he will comply with demands that are future-looking and specific. For example, my mother is in memory care (that's a whole nother mess), and I said to him, "I'm going to see my mother tomorrow, and it would really help me if you text me a message of support."
He actually did that!!!! yay!!!

On the other hand, I think the PDA kicks in when it is emotional in nature or he feels criticized about an event in the PAST or questioned or threatened or something (I'm not sure precisely what it is). For instance, if I say in therapy "It really hurt my feelings that you did not say anything about my mother, and it would really help me if you would apologize." That's when I get the dysregulated anger and the intransigence.

Ironically, my husband once mentioned this article to me because he thought it was interesting that so many people read it on the NYT.


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/11/style/modern-love-what-shamu-taught-me-happy-marriage.html

If it doesn't come up, google "new york times how i trained my husband like shamu."

This is such a productive thread. Thank you to everyone. I have some of the same issues with my spouse, and while this reiterates some of what I know, it is so helpful and adds more. I'd add that some of the strategies I have learned to deal with our ADHD NVLD son who still has a weed problem are very applicable to my spouse. It helps that he learned them as well as to our son.

SLP- The Social Thinking Methodology may help him if he wants to work on his skills.

https://www.socialthinking.com/social-learning/young-and-mature-adults

If he handles it well, I think you need to be verbally explicit about what you are feeling and what you need from him (thinking of the example of how you felt when your father died). You can’t assume that he knows these things if you don’t actually tell him. It would be nice if he was more intuitive, but that will not change, and understandably, your feelings are hurt by that. But the workaround is for you to be vocal about what’s going on in your head.

OP, I notice that all of your goals require your husband to change, which likely means you’re setting you and your husband up for failure. I don’t have any useful advice other than to say that I’d pick goals that are within your control. It could be deciding to accept him as he is one one end or deciding to divorce at the other extreme. But I wouldn’t put my eggs in a basket that required him to change and required him in change in one specifically preferred way because that’s not a reasonable expectation.

OP here. Thanks everybody. You guys are awesome. To answer the questions, I feel that I am in no way being abused. Not even close. My father had autism and was abusive, and I know the difference. I even asked our couples therapist if he thought I was being abused becuase I was worried about repeating patterns from my family of origin. He said he did not think it was anywhere close to that and that he would say something if that was happening because it's unethical not to.

Like one of the posters said, he does a ton of chores. All sorts of things that my friends complain that their husbands don't even know to do at all. He's a do-er. My labor was horrible, and I couldn't even walk in our house, and he built me a wheelchair from an office chair on the first night home from the hospital. This little contraption that I could roll around the house on with containers for the stuff i needed to breastfeed.


It's just this emotional chasm that I can never breach. My father touched me sexually a couple of times in adulthood, and I always rebuffed him, and there was no further physcial contact, but when he died, my husband came home from work that night and gave me a hug because i had texted him that my father died. I whispered in his ear with a lot of confusion and hesitation "I'm not sad." And he said "That's because you got closure when you visited him in the ICU in Massachusetts." Then he walked down the hall to put his shoes on the shoe rack. That was the end of it. I literally watched him walk away and stood there dumbstruck. I was thinking "What?!? It's not because I got closure. It's because he was abusive!!!!"

But hes very sweet. Like yesterday he knew that he had hurt my feelings in Target, and he grabbed my hand to hold hands when we were in the parking lot and said "How are you feeling? Is your back pain gone?" (I have chronic back pain). He knew I was hurt, but he didn't have the language for it.

Our therapist said that he believes he (my husband) loves me deeply and he respects my decision to stay (our kids health would unquestionably suffer if I left, plus a million other reasons). He said "My goal for your therapy is to help you enjoy the marriage as much as possible." I'm trying to do that. Yes, I'm in individual therapy as well. And thanks for the book recommendation on radical acceptance. I'm trying to accept.

Hi OP. After a few years of couples therapy, the therapist recommended I get a book called Radical Acceptance. She told me to focus on myself and what i need to be happy and build community, hobbies etc to have companionship.

The more I monitor my husbands behavior or have expectations about how he should show up, the worse off I am emotionally.

From what you write it is very unlikely he will 1) welcome a diagnosis 2) put in the hard work to make incremental changes 3) be willing to admit that he is a big part of the problem or that there even is a problem.

I would get yourself a good therapist and build out a life. Communicate clearly (if you aren't already) i.e. "sweetie, the dad jokes are making me feel worse. Could you get me a latte instead?"

It is sad when you realize that your spouse is emotionally unavailable for whatever reason. Get some good girlfriends who will support you.

I’m really sorry OP. I think the DBT suggestion for your husband above is good as well as you seeking individual therapy. Be open to whatever happens – – this sounds very difficult and you sound miserable, not a judgment just an observation. Autism or not, you deserve to be treated well. At some point, you will have to decide if this is what you really want.

The right couples therapist can make a big difference. I’m not sure where you are located but I highly recommend the Bruce turnquist group in annapolis. I found my dh did better with male therapists especially those who work with military ptsd isssues for whatever reason.
We have been married 12 years with three kids. Here’s what I did that worked for us: Cleared my plate to handle most household issues that clearly affected him. So I work very reduced hours (outside the home.) We bought on one income are not big spenders and he is a very stable provider so that works for us.

I see signs that he is stressed that he DOES NOT recognize. I send him out to go do his favorite hobby a few times a week (not video gaming-something actually social like pickle ball). He is still a 100% involved dad and very involved and also does many chores-laundry, 50% kitchen, shopping, coaching one kid sport. But he needs frequent family routine breaks and for whatever reason cannot see it himself so I have to kick him out.

I have a good support network-family and mom-friends who I see weekly and vent/strategize with. I do not rely on him to be my sole emotional support.

Dh and I go out once a week just us and talk about mostly non kid stuff. Sometimes this is just a neighborhood walk.

I don’t know if any of this will help but I hope it does. Number one is focus on what you CAN control and that is 1. how you allocate your time and 2. setting up your support network so you are able to get your needs met beyond what he can offer.

OP, how do you feel about the way you are being treated? Does it feel abusive to you? If so, the cause doesn’t matter. All that matters is boundaries. You can’t control your husband, but you can control your own reactions. I have liked the website Out of the FOG for its discussions of boundaries. While the website is designed for people in relationships with those who have personality disorders, the coaching on boundaries and how to better manage conflict is helpful for a lot of situations.

Also, up on stages of change theory. Your husband’s behavior will only change if it’s a problem for him.

You clearly have a big heart and a lot of love for your spouse. I hope you realize that you deserve the same love and empathy. You are the only person who can look out for yourself.

I say this kindly, but he’s 56 and more than half of his life is over. There is no changing him. You are asking for an autistic person to not be autistic. Seek emotional reassurance from someone else, like a friend or family member because he won’t be able to provide that for you.

This sounds so hard. I’m so sorry. I don’t think he is going to learn body language. I think there’s hope if he can start accepting and validating your direct descriptive words about how you feel and what you need.
I think he needs a DBT therapist to work with individually… and work on not getting so dysregulated by requests from you. Marital therapy won’t change his hair-trigger… that’s something HE needs to work on. No one can live well with someone who gets dysregulated over everything.
I’m speaking as the mom of an auDHD older teen so take what I say with a grain of salt… but I just don’t think “learning” the body language is a realistic goal. I think your goalposts here should be:
- you not having to deal with so much emotional hair-trigger behavior from him, and
- get him to respect your feelings (and acknowledge that feelings are different from “facts”.)