Too much drama.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, so holidays mean something…to you.

Holidays come with expectations…for you.

And your brother is his own person, who clearly doesn’t share that priority or expectations.

OK.

Would you rather he and his wife and kids never see you and your family, but show up randomly three or four days a year for holidays? Or might you feel grateful that you see them more regularly, have a good relationship, but do your own thing for holidays?

Why do some people act like holidays are such a must-do, performative thing? My brother and his partner sometimes join us for holidays, sometimes not. They didn’t want to join our Thanksgiving this year, but we have plans to see them the next weekend. OK!

This. I suspect large family gatherings are emotionally tough for his wife since she has no family left.
Not exactly the same, but I decided when the kids were little that actual holidays are for nuclear family. I did not want to drag my kids to someone’s house for Christmas or Easter not did I want to host on those days. Christmas and Easter in my nuclear family are relaxing - stay in your pajamas half the day for unwrapping. I love not having the stress of a holiday meal when I wanted to enjoy my day with my children, watching the joy on their faces and hearing the squeals of excitement.

What happens when you are widowed and alone?

Then I relax in my pajamas and do whatever I want. It is a day just like any other.
My mom moved nearby after my father passed away; youngest was 7 at the time. My ILs are 3 hours away. [She didn’t move to be closer to me, she moved because she had breathing issues (emphysema) at high altitude and I was the only child living near sea level]
For Christmas, I would offer to have her come in the afternoon after all the excitement died down. She knew there would be no fancy dinner and the kids would still be in their pajamas and probably a bit obsessed with whatever new toy or game. We would sit & drink coffee.
We do big holiday gatherings on Thanksgiving (at my ILs), and my husband and I host after Christmas - just not on the actual day. My DH’s brother’s wife’s family has a big holiday tradition on Christmas Eve, so it works well to celebrate between Christmas and New Years. My extended family lives in Colorado and we never travel over the holidays. We did once when the oldest 2 were little and got stuck an extra 2 days because of a snow storm.
I have 4 boys - ranging from 16-28. All single. The oldest 3 have had serious girlfriends. I will respect whatever holiday tradition they create with their families.
If I’m being completely honest, chances are my husband will pass away before I do, same with my sisters and friends husbands. Anyone that wants to move in together in old age will be welcomed, and we can sit in our pajamas and drink coffee all day. One of my divorced friends already jokes about it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, so holidays mean something…to you.

Holidays come with expectations…for you.

And your brother is his own person, who clearly doesn’t share that priority or expectations.

OK.

Would you rather he and his wife and kids never see you and your family, but show up randomly three or four days a year for holidays? Or might you feel grateful that you see them more regularly, have a good relationship, but do your own thing for holidays?

Why do some people act like holidays are such a must-do, performative thing? My brother and his partner sometimes join us for holidays, sometimes not. They didn’t want to join our Thanksgiving this year, but we have plans to see them the next weekend. OK!

This. I suspect large family gatherings are emotionally tough for his wife since she has no family left.
Not exactly the same, but I decided when the kids were little that actual holidays are for nuclear family. I did not want to drag my kids to someone’s house for Christmas or Easter not did I want to host on those days. Christmas and Easter in my nuclear family are relaxing - stay in your pajamas half the day for unwrapping. I love not having the stress of a holiday meal when I wanted to enjoy my day with my children, watching the joy on their faces and hearing the squeals of excitement.

What happens when you are widowed and alone?

Well then you have bittersweet memories of nuclear family holidays. And adapt.

OP, he likes who he is better, when not in the mix of this family of origin. The patterns we grew up with sometimes don't bring-out the self we like best. Our strongest self. The self we have worked hard to become. Maybe be feels marginalized, gets put in a role from his youth. It's just the way the personalities interact - not like any of you are doing anything wrong, necessarily. It's not like he's analyzed this and has a clear idea of what I just said, but when he has choices to make, he makes them in this direction. It's ok. You should respect his choices, not make his choices a topic of speculation with other family members. Work to meet-him in the areas of his present life - when he invites you in.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, so holidays mean something…to you.

Holidays come with expectations…for you.

And your brother is his own person, who clearly doesn’t share that priority or expectations.

OK.

Would you rather he and his wife and kids never see you and your family, but show up randomly three or four days a year for holidays? Or might you feel grateful that you see them more regularly, have a good relationship, but do your own thing for holidays?

Why do some people act like holidays are such a must-do, performative thing? My brother and his partner sometimes join us for holidays, sometimes not. They didn’t want to join our Thanksgiving this year, but we have plans to see them the next weekend. OK!

This. I suspect large family gatherings are emotionally tough for his wife since she has no family left.
Not exactly the same, but I decided when the kids were little that actual holidays are for nuclear family. I did not want to drag my kids to someone’s house for Christmas or Easter not did I want to host on those days. Christmas and Easter in my nuclear family are relaxing - stay in your pajamas half the day for unwrapping. I love not having the stress of a holiday meal when I wanted to enjoy my day with my children, watching the joy on their faces and hearing the squeals of excitement.

What happens when you are widowed and alone?

Maybe large gathering are not their thing, or just not how they enjoy doing special occasions. This is what they have decided makes them happiest over the holidays. It is not about you. Some want something more simple and calm.

His family likes their own gatherings and traditions.
You have sizeist judgement about gatherings...big is best.

Respect his choices.

But my brother always declines to host and attend these gatherings." It's his WIFE who is the real host, OP. You seem to not mention her, other than to say her parents have passed and it comes off a bit dismissive. They're gone, so. You and your sister need to include her. Pull her into the holiday planning. You're giving off an exclusion vibe. My sister and I. No. It should be my sister and I and our sister-in-law. Update your circle and you might begin to show some results.

My brother did the same thing. When his wife's family died, to her, it wasn't fair that my parents were still living so she wouldn't allow holidays with us.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents, adult brother, adult sister and me all live within an hour of each other. My sister and I take turns hosting Easter, Thanksgiving and Christmas for all of our families. This year I'm dong Thanksgiving and my sister is doing Christmas. Everyone is invited: my parents, siblings, kids, holiday guests and strays etc.

But my brother always declines to host and attend these gatherings. His family just does their own small thing or they go out of town. His wife's family has passed away so it's not like they're spending time with them. This has been going on for years. He does take our parents out for holiday meals at restaurants and sometimes invites my family. Is he being rude by not hosting everyone and/or coming to our holiday get togethers?

I should also add there's seemingly no estrangement. Because he does see my parents separately. And my kids, his kids and our sister's kids all hang out and do playdates so we see each other about once a month. Just not on holidays. What's up with that.

PP from post above. You also refer to him as he and not they he is married why are you ignoring his wife and they aren’t just your brothers nieces but THEIR nieces they are married, correct? So it’s your SIL’s nieces as well but it seems you prefer to ignore her in this context so I don’t blame her if she prefers not being in the company of people who only refer to or regard her husband but acts like she doesn’t exist

NP. When people get married - they are still individuals. It is weird that you think they morph into one blob.

Anonymous wrote:Wow, so holidays mean something…to you.

Holidays come with expectations…for you.

And your brother is his own person, who clearly doesn’t share that priority or expectations.

OK.

Would you rather he and his wife and kids never see you and your family, but show up randomly three or four days a year for holidays? Or might you feel grateful that you see them more regularly, have a good relationship, but do your own thing for holidays?

Why do some people act like holidays are such a must-do, performative thing? My brother and his partner sometimes join us for holidays, sometimes not. They didn’t want to join our Thanksgiving this year, but we have plans to see them the next weekend. OK!

This. I suspect large family gatherings are emotionally tough for his wife since she has no family left.
Not exactly the same, but I decided when the kids were little that actual holidays are for nuclear family. I did not want to drag my kids to someone’s house for Christmas or Easter not did I want to host on those days. Christmas and Easter in my nuclear family are relaxing - stay in your pajamas half the day for unwrapping. I love not having the stress of a holiday meal when I wanted to enjoy my day with my children, watching the joy on their faces and hearing the squeals of excitement.

Anonymous wrote:My parents, adult brother, adult sister and me all live within an hour of each other. My sister and I take turns hosting Easter, Thanksgiving and Christmas for all of our families. This year I'm dong Thanksgiving and my sister is doing Christmas. Everyone is invited: my parents, siblings, kids, holiday guests and strays etc.

But my brother always declines to host and attend these gatherings. His family just does their own small thing or they go out of town. His wife's family has passed away so it's not like they're spending time with them. This has been going on for years. He does take our parents out for holiday meals at restaurants and sometimes invites my family. Is he being rude by not hosting everyone and/or coming to our holiday get togethers?

I should also add there's seemingly no estrangement. Because he does see my parents separately. And my kids, his kids and our sister's kids all hang out and do playdates so we see each other about once a month. Just not on holidays. What's up with that.

PP from post above. You also refer to him as he and not they he is married why are you ignoring his wife and they aren’t just your brothers nieces but THEIR nieces they are married, correct? So it’s your SIL’s nieces as well but it seems you prefer to ignore her in this context so I don’t blame her if she prefers not being in the company of people who only refer to or regard her husband but acts like she doesn’t exist

Anonymous wrote:My parents, adult brother, adult sister and me all live within an hour of each other. My sister and I take turns hosting Easter, Thanksgiving and Christmas for all of our families. This year I'm dong Thanksgiving and my sister is doing Christmas. Everyone is invited: my parents, siblings, kids, holiday guests and strays etc.

But my brother always declines to host and attend these gatherings. His family just does their own small thing or they go out of town. His wife's family has passed away so it's not like they're spending time with them. This has been going on for years. He does take our parents out for holiday meals at restaurants and sometimes invites my family. Is he being rude by not hosting everyone and/or coming to our holiday get togethers?

I should also add there's seemingly no estrangement. Because he does see my parents separately. And my kids, his kids and our sister's kids all hang out and do playdates so we see each other about once a month. Just not on holidays. What's up with that.

How is your brother choosing to spend the holiday with his own immediate family which isn’t his parents and siblings anymore it is now his wife and child ride? That’s such a weird take to say someone choosing not to spend holidays with extended family but their own immediate family is rude. And if his wife’s family has passed away maybe it makes her sad to be around her husband’s family it’s like a reminder of what she lossed and of course your brother will put his wife first and prioritize her bc of course his wife is more important than his sister. Maybe she prefers it just to be her own immediate family. Have you considered your SIL in any of this and how it may affect her? It seems like you care more about your relationship with your brother than your SIL and her feelings and what she might be dealing with or going through. Have a heart and some empathy here.

If her parents are deceased, your SIL might find the holidays painful or upsetting and they might want to keep it low key or travel vs. her having to fake the “happy family” thing year after year with her husband’s side of the family.