Anonymous wrote:No 18-year-old should ever dig themselves a $200k hole to become a nurse, or anything else for that matter.

- dad of ICU nurse

We are talking about post graduate degrees here.

No 18-year-old should ever dig themselves a $200k hole to become a nurse, or anything else for that matter.

- dad of ICU nurse

Declaring nursing certifications to not be professional degrees is quite the move, right as the whole health care industry is moving to using NPs and RNs as primary care in place of actual MDs.

Because they can be paid less, see more patients, do fewer things overall and just farm out the referrals and renew prescriptions. They can't diagnose on the spot. I have excellent health insurance and haven't seen an actual MD in years now. I do technically have an MD upstream who gives the A-OK on prescription renewals but my NP visits are like 10 minutes long.

And I knew something was up when I presented a couple of years ago with a small but weird skin rash for which I got an in-network dermatologist referral. A quick google of images at home said it was absolutely 100% ringworm and I bought my own OTC meds, but that was amazing to me that the NP wouldn't even opine on what it "could" be. She actually said "I can't tell what that is today" ... I did not see the derm, I just cleared it up on my own.

In the US most MD physicians and dentists and oral surgeons are very well off. It's like you can see the Red Sea of wealth parting ... you guys up here, you guys down there.

When do dental hygienists start giving initial consultations?

That doesn't seem far away.

Paralegals are already doing that.

What's interesting is that most white nurses I know are MAGA. Maybe this will shut down the mean MAGA white girl to nurse pipeline I've seen lately.

All part of the plan to make it more difficult for those without family $$ to compete with those that have resources.

This will benefit the UMC mostly, who can assist with the bill and who’s kids will face less competition (don’t think too many rich kids go into nursing, but lots of UMC kids do).

Anonymous wrote:Surely this was a mistake and will be fixed?

No. Project 2025/Christofascists want women to stay at home and poor people to stay poor: Giving them loans for professional degrees runs counter to their goal of oppresing women and minorities, and stopping their ability to increase their power and SES.

Anonymous wrote:Surely this was a mistake and will be fixed?

Nope. They want to limit opportunities while also ensuring most of us die needlessly.

Anonymous wrote:How long will it take to recover from this madness?

A long long time.

Guess we will let "capitalism work" and see how many billionaires step up to pay the tuition of nursing students.

How long will it take to recover from this madness?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can kind of see nurses since it is a BS degree. But physician assistant and nurse practioner degrees are professional degrees!

Nursing is a high turnover profession and we are constantly bleeding staff on tough units like med surg. Most hospitals will only hire BSNs. I was a nurse manager for med surg and the only way to staff the unit as long time older nurses retired was to keep hiring new grads, but they all go elsewhere after a year like ICU, mother/baby units, etc.

Pay them more. Let the market system work

Long term labor shortages do not happen naturally in market economies. That is not to say that they don't exist. They are created when employers or government agencies tamper with the natural functioning of the wage mechanism.

"[To attract] workers, the employer may have to increase his wage offer. ... So when you hear an employer saying he needs immigrants to fill a "labor shortage'', remember what you are hearing: a cry for a labor subsidy to allow the employer to avoid the normal functioning of the labor market."
-1990 Congressional Testimony of Dr. Michael S. Teitelbaum
http://users.nber.org/~sewp/references/archive/weinsteinhowandwhygovernment.pdf

LOL. And have CEOs take a pay cut or god forbid, pay a bit more in taxes?!?!?

I was a software developer in the 90’s and i would interview to hire Java developers. My company would not pay the market rate , and then complain they couldn’t find Java developers. They could , they just didn’t want to pay the going rate .

The market works wonders is we let it and stop government from favoring the investor class

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can kind of see nurses since it is a BS degree. But physician assistant and nurse practioner degrees are professional degrees!

Nursing is a high turnover profession and we are constantly bleeding staff on tough units like med surg. Most hospitals will only hire BSNs. I was a nurse manager for med surg and the only way to staff the unit as long time older nurses retired was to keep hiring new grads, but they all go elsewhere after a year like ICU, mother/baby units, etc.

Pay them more. Let the market system work

Long term labor shortages do not happen naturally in market economies. That is not to say that they don't exist. They are created when employers or government agencies tamper with the natural functioning of the wage mechanism.

"[To attract] workers, the employer may have to increase his wage offer. ... So when you hear an employer saying he needs immigrants to fill a "labor shortage'', remember what you are hearing: a cry for a labor subsidy to allow the employer to avoid the normal functioning of the labor market."
-1990 Congressional Testimony of Dr. Michael S. Teitelbaum
http://users.nber.org/~sewp/references/archive/weinsteinhowandwhygovernment.pdf

Would love to, tell hospital administration. But also be realistic. I worked for a nonprofit urban hospital with a high medicaid/medicate population and operating profit of like three percent. Nurses are the largest dept with thousands of employees and biggest budget.

DP to add, given the size of the nursing dept, even if you cut the admin salaries in half, it would be a drop in the bucket when spread across the entire nursing staff.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can kind of see nurses since it is a BS degree. But physician assistant and nurse practioner degrees are professional degrees!

Nursing is a high turnover profession and we are constantly bleeding staff on tough units like med surg. Most hospitals will only hire BSNs. I was a nurse manager for med surg and the only way to staff the unit as long time older nurses retired was to keep hiring new grads, but they all go elsewhere after a year like ICU, mother/baby units, etc.

Pay them more. Let the market system work

Long term labor shortages do not happen naturally in market economies. That is not to say that they don't exist. They are created when employers or government agencies tamper with the natural functioning of the wage mechanism.

"[To attract] workers, the employer may have to increase his wage offer. ... So when you hear an employer saying he needs immigrants to fill a "labor shortage'', remember what you are hearing: a cry for a labor subsidy to allow the employer to avoid the normal functioning of the labor market."
-1990 Congressional Testimony of Dr. Michael S. Teitelbaum
http://users.nber.org/~sewp/references/archive/weinsteinhowandwhygovernment.pdf

Would love to, tell hospital administration. But also be realistic. I worked for a nonprofit urban hospital with a high medicaid/medicate population and operating profit of like three percent. Nurses are the largest dept with thousands of employees and biggest budget.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can kind of see nurses since it is a BS degree. But physician assistant and nurse practioner degrees are professional degrees!

Nursing is a high turnover profession and we are constantly bleeding staff on tough units like med surg. Most hospitals will only hire BSNs. I was a nurse manager for med surg and the only way to staff the unit as long time older nurses retired was to keep hiring new grads, but they all go elsewhere after a year like ICU, mother/baby units, etc.

Pay them more. Let the market system work

Long term labor shortages do not happen naturally in market economies. That is not to say that they don't exist. They are created when employers or government agencies tamper with the natural functioning of the wage mechanism.

"[To attract] workers, the employer may have to increase his wage offer. ... So when you hear an employer saying he needs immigrants to fill a "labor shortage'', remember what you are hearing: a cry for a labor subsidy to allow the employer to avoid the normal functioning of the labor market."
-1990 Congressional Testimony of Dr. Michael S. Teitelbaum
http://users.nber.org/~sewp/references/archive/weinsteinhowandwhygovernment.pdf

LOL. And have CEOs take a pay cut or god forbid, pay a bit more in taxes?!?!?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can kind of see nurses since it is a BS degree. But physician assistant and nurse practioner degrees are professional degrees!

Nursing is a high turnover profession and we are constantly bleeding staff on tough units like med surg. Most hospitals will only hire BSNs. I was a nurse manager for med surg and the only way to staff the unit as long time older nurses retired was to keep hiring new grads, but they all go elsewhere after a year like ICU, mother/baby units, etc.

Pay them more. Let the market system work

Long term labor shortages do not happen naturally in market economies. That is not to say that they don't exist. They are created when employers or government agencies tamper with the natural functioning of the wage mechanism.

"[To attract] workers, the employer may have to increase his wage offer. ... So when you hear an employer saying he needs immigrants to fill a "labor shortage'', remember what you are hearing: a cry for a labor subsidy to allow the employer to avoid the normal functioning of the labor market."
-1990 Congressional Testimony of Dr. Michael S. Teitelbaum
http://users.nber.org/~sewp/references/archive/weinsteinhowandwhygovernment.pdf

Anonymous wrote:I can kind of see nurses since it is a BS degree. But physician assistant and nurse practioner degrees are professional degrees!

Nursing is a high turnover profession and we are constantly bleeding staff on tough units like med surg. Most hospitals will only hire BSNs. I was a nurse manager for med surg and the only way to staff the unit as long time older nurses retired was to keep hiring new grads, but they all go elsewhere after a year like ICU, mother/baby units, etc.