I'm not patriotic at all but this sounds like Hallmark movie fantasy. In reality moving overseas would be a giant pain in the ass, and I wouldn't really get away from family and friend drama because of social media.

Anonymous wrote:I am a US-European dual citizen and have spent many, many years in both, not to mention every other continent also. I’ve been to every European country in fact, both in and out of the EU. Both the US and Europe are deeply flawed, but in very different ways. It’s uncanny. The things I hate about America are great in Europe, and vice versa. I will say that American money in Europe is terrific, and we have benefitted from that a lot. But honestly, Europe was a lot better 15 years ago, and even that isn’t as fun as it used to be. European cities have declined significantly and quickly, and in many countries, they are no better than American cities. France, Sweden, Germany and even Ireland are all prime examples. The rest of Europe is well on its way. Rural Europe is still charming in many cases, especially if you don’t need to work, but the weather is terrible for much of the year in even the warmest countries. And forget about Northern Europe, just gray, cold and dark for the majority of the year. Australia and NZ are great, but the economies are very, very weak, which is why so many young people flee. And they are far. These days, we alternate between the American West, rural Europe and NZ, and try to enjoy the best of each.

I think I have very different preferences to you but agree on much of what you say here, especially the bolded. Sadly.

I think many Americans would be surprised to learn that much of what is making us unhappy in the US has simply been exported to Europe and they are dealing with similar issues. Except the guns. That is truly a uniquely American problem and no one has to deal with it like we do. It's really an intractable difficulty and it impacts so many other issues. It is very unfortunate. If the US could solve its gun problem and figure out some kind of better solution for healthcare, it would unquestionably be the most desirable country to live in the entire world. It's very frustrating we can't seem to resolve these problems in a pragmatic way.

However unlike you I don't care about the cold, gray weather of Northern Europe and think Scandinavia remains a decent upgrade over the US. I would be fine with Scandinavian winters, I grew in a place with long, gray winters in the US and actually miss it. I hate DC summers and the warm, wet winters. My dream destination is a midsize city in Northern Europe like Malmo in Sweden, Ghent in Belgium, or Lille in France. You get good value for your money, it's cosmopolitan enough for me even though it's not a major city, and you are so close to the major cities that you really don't miss out on much. I also prefer the midsize cities in the US, and would rather live in Minneapolis or Richmond or Portland Maine than NY or DC or SF. But in the US, it's incredibly hard to travel to major cities if you live elsewhere -- just extremely expensive and inconvenient. It's a major issue and I think why there is such a division between rural and urban in the US. It's so much easier in Europe which I think promotes a greater feeling of camaraderie and understanding. It is surprising how hard it is to move around the US. Driving is easiest yet everything is so far apart and in the cities it is hard to drive and park. It just makes no sense. Why would you set it up this way?

Anonymous wrote:That sounds like a BS poll to me.

+1

I was suspicious of the poll results, thinking it sounded like a bunch of high school girls. It turns out the young women were aged 15-44, so apparently it did include a bunch of high school girls. I couldn’t find an age distribution for the US sample, but offhand I’m guessing that approximately 40% were still in school and not self-supporting, much less investing in a house, in any country.

Anonymous wrote:Where would they go? .

They can move to any developing country and with their American degrees and accent, find good financial opportunities. Their income would provide a much nicer home, hired help, social status etc.

I am a US-European dual citizen and have spent many, many years in both, not to mention every other continent also. I’ve been to every European country in fact, both in and out of the EU. Both the US and Europe are deeply flawed, but in very different ways. It’s uncanny. The things I hate about America are great in Europe, and vice versa. I will say that American money in Europe is terrific, and we have benefitted from that a lot. But honestly, Europe was a lot better 15 years ago, and even that isn’t as fun as it used to be. European cities have declined significantly and quickly, and in many countries, they are no better than American cities. France, Sweden, Germany and even Ireland are all prime examples. The rest of Europe
is well on its way. Rural Europe is still charming in many cases, especially if you don’t need to work, but the weather is terrible for much of the year in even the warmest countries. And forget about Northern Europe, just gray, cold and dark for the majority of the year. Australia and NZ are great, but the economies are very, very weak, which is why so many young people flee. And they are far. These days, we alternate between the American West, rural Europe and NZ, and try to enjoy the best of each.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:meanwhile american men prefer eastern european and asian women.

Good luck with that boys. I know two American men with Eastern European mail order nightmare brides. Both ladies are here to try take these boys for everything they've got. Sounds so great.

I bet they have nothing to take. If they had something to take, they would have enough for themselves and their brides. PP, you sound like you have poverty mindset. There's enough money for everyone. Government prints more of it every day.
Their brides got an excellent education, specially in math. I promise. The ladies are broke not poor, which mean it's temporary. They also most likely know how to manage money as they have had to do it all of their lives.
My former BIL still tells the story how his brother gave me money that somehow set me up. It makes him and his brother look good. Both are broke a heck and have been as long as I remember. At least my ex agrees that I'm good with money and he should have listened.
He put me in debt during our marriage, but courts made him pay it back (all in DD). Imagine still having to listen to this story how ex gave me money. He didn't. My tax return even went to pay his long forgotten student loans.
I'm financially free now, because I got rid of my ex and not thanks to him.

People are not leaving because they do not want to.

They do not have the money to set up citizenship anywhere else.

Or they are afraid to start over.

Please go. I won't stop you. More peace for us. I'm sick of the needless chaos you create.
Signed,
a woman

Anonymous wrote:Where would they go? I'm not from the US and the only place I'd gladly move to is Canada.

Why not Africa?

Living is much cheaper there and your kids would be able to largely escape the plague that is internet / social media, in Africa.

Anonymous wrote:meanwhile american men prefer eastern european and asian women.

Good luck with that boys. I know two American men with Eastern European mail order nightmare brides. Both ladies are here to try take these boys for everything they've got. Sounds so great.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think about it often. It's logistically challenging and my DH is not on board (though he gets closer every year, I think).

There are just a lot of things about American culture that will never change and such a negative for my well being. I know other countries have cultural issues that I wouldn't like either, I just find those issues less alarming than some of the American issues (mostly gun culture and individualism/capitalism taking to what I believe to be an unhealthy extreme).

I also sometimes think I've been American for too long to make it work somewhere else. Like I should have emigrated in my 20s but now I'm in my 40s and even when I dont' like it, I embody an American ethos that won't work elsewhere.

I don't know. Sometimes it sucks here. Some things are great, better than anywhere else. Some thing are not.

There are and people constantly bring this up, but having spent years abroad in Europe and Latin America i find I take those things less...personally? There is a disconnect mentally that whatever that dysfunction looks like it isn't really mine as a foreigner, I don't own it in the same way as American issues. Anyway, I wish DH would get on board because I am definitely due for some time out.

PP here and yes, I can see that. But even sometimes I can't detach from it and I still think the trade off would be worth it. Like I've spent a lot of time in Sweden and Denmark for work and there are definitely aspects of those cultures that would be tough. People can be closed off and hard to make friends with (nowhere near as friendly as Americans), there is some surprising racism, there are a bunch of seemingly small cultural conventions it would be really hard to adapt to. But... what if I could raise my kids in a place with few guns, where there is massive investment in public transit and education is much more freely available? I think I could suck it up and deal with the stuff I don't like, honestly.

Of course, part of it is whether it would even be possible for us to immigrate there. But I do think I'd be willing to make the tradeoff even understanding a lot of the downsides.

Anonymous wrote:Where would they go? I'm not from the US and the only place I'd gladly move to is Canada.

it will be annexed as north usa, did you know the entire pdg of canada is smaller than texas

meanwhile american men prefer eastern european and asian women.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where would they go? I'm not from the US and the only place I'd gladly move to is Canada.

What about like all of Europe? Or Australia ?

eh, too racist for me (I'm not white)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where would they go? I'm not from the US and the only place I'd gladly move to is Canada.

What about like all of Europe? Or Australia ?

Either would be a step backwards as far as personal rights.

Wut?

European governments give better rights than ours

NP- It's different. There are more social and economic rights but less emphasis on individual rights and freedom of speech.