Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of people don't have the tenacity or the skills to do anything hard in life. This is why we need lower level jobs and smaller living spaces. Its also OK to be this type of person and live your life with your family. People do this all over the world and then they take care of their parents in old age.

OMG, you're so close... and yet...

The rest of the world lives this way because it's actually functional. Whatever BS you bought into about how only people at the top of the heap of exhausted human bodies are "successful" is a disease. Condescendingly referring to the things that make your life what it is as "lower level jobs" is more indicative of your mental disorder than actual social dysfunction. I bet you push for "smaller living spaces" because you don't want to pay those "lower level" workers a living wage, right?

Gross. Greedy and gross, and grossly overestimating your own actual worth as a human. You are more than a bank account. Sorry nobody loved you enough to tell you that.

Thank you. I truly believe this person's world view is a huge part of what's wrong with this world. Worth is inherent and doesn't come from what you do. Believing your worth comes from money and success causes you anxiety because you always have to have more and allows you to "other" people, which is toxic.

Sorry to interrupt but I wasn’t talking about money or success per se, just the usual “if you like something you want to practice and become better at it” trope. It seems like it isn’t the case for some people (they still can’t bother) and I was wondering why. -OP

Anonymous wrote:Most people aren't hugely successful or "good at something." It's fine.

I respectfully disagree. I have an impression that most people find something they at least remotely like and then become decent at it.
However I’ve come across not one but several older teens and young adults who claim to like X, dabble in it but don’t put in much effort, naturally they don’t see results and then they either continue with not much progress or move on to another interest and the story repeats. If got me curious. -OP

Anonymous wrote:A lot of people don't have the tenacity or the skills to do anything hard in life. This is why we need lower level jobs and smaller living spaces. Its also OK to be this type of person and live your life with your family. People do this all over the world and then they take care of their parents in old age.

So what do they do, generally? Work a simple job and get by?

Anonymous wrote:My brother was what his teachers called a “gifted drifter”. He dithered along until he met his now-wife at age 25 and that seemed to suddenly wake him up. He’s now 40 and doing extremely well in a niche field. But my parents spent many years despairing about him.

Thank you for sharing. Is there a hypothesis on why he used to be like that?
I have a very distant relative who kept changing jobs and dropped out of several schools before finally getting his stuff together in his early 30s I think! Don’t know what woke him up!

Anonymous wrote:She works at a bakery/cafe full time. She has always been someone who would rather NOT try because she's so afraid to fail, not seeing you can fail, regroup and try again. So she's 22 and has taken like three college classes after dropping out of HS and eventually getting a GED. Very sad.

Would you classify this as anxiety?

There are a lot of elements to a fulfilling life, and everyone’s path doesn’t have to look the same.

I think a lot of the Type A overachievers in DC look at me this way. I have an impressive graduate degree but never lived up to its potential, largely because I just don't like the field it is in and wish I'd just gotten an MFA in writing and become an English teacher like I wanted. I was told by everyone that was a waste of my intelligence and that is never have any money. My younger self was a people pleaser so I got the more impressive (to them) degree but never felt invested and have drifted through my career.

I'm mid-40s now and financially stable but not wealthy, doing a job no one is particularly impressed by. However, I'm a great parent and have a happy life with my family. I *am* a frustrated writer and wish I had more time to debate to that. I've published a few short stories but that's it. I still plug away at it though. Publishing a novel remains my greatest professional dream.

In DC, I think a lot of people view me as a hopeless dreamer. This used to get to me but now I see that plenty of the people who would judge me that way aren't particularly happy or fulfilled. A lot of highly successful careers start to crust over at my age and, aside from the money, don't look so good. Lawyers who still work 70 hour weeks in the 50s and can't take vacations with their kids because of client demands. Corporate careers that feel soulless and empty -- you'll find 20-somethings convinced their start up or corporate employer is going to change the world, people my age know better and understand it's just a job.

So the main downside is that it's hard to get rich as a drifter. But as a hard and reliable worker, I've always had work and I'm not broke either. I am rich in the things you realize in middle age matter most -- kids, good marriage, good friends, art, intellectual.stumulation.

Meant - I don’t mean to demean people who find self-worth through their job ^^

There’s nothing wrong with working in a bakery at any age, but especially as a very young person; there’s a lot of foundational things she can learn in a job like that.

I like how PP put it - value as a human being goes well beyond what somebody does for a living. I’ve always prioritized my relationships and connections with others over my salary or the prestige of my job, and it’s enough for me. As long as you can put food on the table, a roof over your head and pay your bills, who the heck cares. And I do t mean to Debra’s people who find their self-worth and identity in their job - that’s wonderful too. Different strokes.

Anonymous wrote:Y'all need actual lives with actual problems. Not being driven (into the ground) at 23 is hardly "not good at anything", and there's nothing wrong with working at a bakery and being a decent human being.

This thread seems to be full of people who peaked in college and think being a workaholic is success. You're a mindless cog in a wheel that doesn't give a single eff about you. Please contain your misery instead of trying to project it onto others who are happily living their own lives. Go be (allegedly) rich and (allegedly) successful (according to your narrow ass definition) somewhere else, and do it quietly. Nobody needs your approval.

And if you're treating your own children this way, you SUCK as a parent. Back all the way off! Congrats on the crippling pressure you put on your kids before they even got a chance to be independent adults. Absolutely pathetic.

All this! I’m glad I live in a generally low-pressure area where what the OP describes is just normal.

- a former “high-stats” NMSF kid who worked in a bakery for minimum wage well into her 20s

I have no skills, but I'm a very good worker. I have been rehired at my customer service job by three different companies 10 times at minimum.
I was too busy surviving as an immigrant from age 18-30 working low wage jobs. I had no time to think about my passions or wants.
Comes out that my passion is personal finance.
I remember counting my pennies even as a kid in the old country. I had no idea that dealing with money can be a career. We didn't even have banks back at home. I also found a budgeting notebook from year 2001. It was normal for me to have them.
I invested some of my money and it replaced my low income very fast. Now I work only part time to keep busy. I'm at an age now (48) where I need to concentrate on building muscle and keep healthy. Glad I have the time.
I don't know too many immigrants that are low effort, but the Americans I know, have family homes and some support to be able to survive.
If my kid ends up being low effort, he has family to turn to. He is working at 18 already while in college. He said working is better than
sitting at home. Silly him.

Anonymous wrote:Hopefully it’s the right forum.
What happens to these people? Those who claim to have “passions” but are very low effort and therefore no success and then are either bad at it or move on to other things. I know a few young people who are like that. What’s your experience? Do they mature and become good at something? Or do they drift through life, hanging by a thread?

It’s interesting to look at young people who talk about having passions but never quite translate that enthusiasm into real progress. On the surface it seems like a failure of discipline. But if you examine it more closely, it often has less to do with effort and more to do with timing and environment.

A lot of people don’t discover what they’re good at through a straight line. They experiment. They quit. They drift. It can look like low commitment, but it’s actually a search process. Humans are not very good at predicting what will hold their attention over the long term. We only find out by trying things and watching what sticks.

The ones who eventually excel usually stumble into the right conditions. They meet someone who believes in them. They fall into a workplace that rewards their particular quirks. They encounter a constraint that forces them to focus. What looks like maturity is often just the moment when someone’s abilities finally intersect with the right context.

And yes, some people drift longer than others. But drifting is not the same as being lost. It can be a prelude to competence. Many adults who seem highly directed now spent their early years bouncing between half-formed interests. Their eventual success came from discovering the ecosystem that made sustained effort feel possible.

In other words, the outcome depends less on the passion itself and more on the situation that gives that passion a place to grow.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of people don't have the tenacity or the skills to do anything hard in life. This is why we need lower level jobs and smaller living spaces. Its also OK to be this type of person and live your life with your family. People do this all over the world and then they take care of their parents in old age.

OMG, you're so close... and yet...

The rest of the world lives this way because it's actually functional. Whatever BS you bought into about how only people at the top of the heap of exhausted human bodies are "successful" is a disease. Condescendingly referring to the things that make your life what it is as "lower level jobs" is more indicative of your mental disorder than actual social dysfunction. I bet you push for "smaller living spaces" because you don't want to pay those "lower level" workers a living wage, right?

Gross. Greedy and gross, and grossly overestimating your own actual worth as a human. You are more than a bank account. Sorry nobody loved you enough to tell you that.

Thank you. I truly believe this person's world view is a huge part of what's wrong with this world. Worth is inherent and doesn't come from what you do. Believing your worth comes from money and success causes you anxiety because you always have to have more and allows you to "other" people, which is toxic.

Lol. Who said anything about them being less worth? Look in the mirror as to why your thoughts went that way. No one needs to support others just because they aren't as skilled. In fact it would diminish their worth as an adult to do so and as you said money does not define worth so money and living spaces don't define worth. They simply define what people can afford. People who have less motivation and skills can make less money and live in smaller spaces and still have worth as a human. You said it yourself.

Define "skills". Because the people you think have "less motivation and skills" probably just have less manipulative tendencies and greed. I know plenty of "skilled professionals" who can't make a simple meal for themselves, or keep a calendar, or carry on a conversation that isn't about their job. Being "skilled" at something that makes you money doesn't make you a well-rounded person. This whole thread is about people who aren't motivated to become that sort of person and how it's a problem. It's not. It's a value judgment by the OP, and badly flawed logic.

Yes, I'm 6:33 and the reason I didn't like 6:46's response is because it agreed with the thread's premise that there's a problem that needs solving. 6:46 wanted to solve that problem with "lower level jobs and smaller living spaces" which to somebody bothering to call out those "solutions," they are likely seen as a consolation prize. It's so deeply believed by people with money and success because it's not called out enough.

Anonymous wrote:Hopefully it’s the right forum.
What happens to these people? Those who claim to have “passions” but are very low effort and therefore no success and then are either bad at it or move on to other things. I know a few young people who are like that. What’s your experience? Do they mature and become good at something? Or do they drift through life, hanging by a thread?

Encourage them to get tested for ADHD (one of dcum's favorite advice). Since they are of adult age, you won't be able to make them get tested tho. Low level depression? Get therapy and possibly on meds (another two of dcum's go tos).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of people don't have the tenacity or the skills to do anything hard in life. This is why we need lower level jobs and smaller living spaces. Its also OK to be this type of person and live your life with your family. People do this all over the world and then they take care of their parents in old age.

OMG, you're so close... and yet...

The rest of the world lives this way because it's actually functional. Whatever BS you bought into about how only people at the top of the heap of exhausted human bodies are "successful" is a disease. Condescendingly referring to the things that make your life what it is as "lower level jobs" is more indicative of your mental disorder than actual social dysfunction. I bet you push for "smaller living spaces" because you don't want to pay those "lower level" workers a living wage, right?

Gross. Greedy and gross, and grossly overestimating your own actual worth as a human. You are more than a bank account. Sorry nobody loved you enough to tell you that.

Thank you. I truly believe this person's world view is a huge part of what's wrong with this world. Worth is inherent and doesn't come from what you do. Believing your worth comes from money and success causes you anxiety because you always have to have more and allows you to "other" people, which is toxic.

Lol. Who said anything about them being less worth? Look in the mirror as to why your thoughts went that way. No one needs to support others just because they aren't as skilled. In fact it would diminish their worth as an adult to do so and as you said money does not define worth so money and living spaces don't define worth. They simply define what people can afford. People who have less motivation and skills can make less money and live in smaller spaces and still have worth as a human. You said it yourself.

Define "skills". Because the people you think have "less motivation and skills" probably just have less manipulative tendencies and greed. I know plenty of "skilled professionals" who can't make a simple meal for themselves, or keep a calendar, or carry on a conversation that isn't about their job. Being "skilled" at something that makes you money doesn't make you a well-rounded person. This whole thread is about people who aren't motivated to become that sort of person and how it's a problem. It's not. It's a value judgment by the OP, and badly flawed logic.